Outbreak...

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Re: Outbreak...

Postby Kurt » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:38 pm

Wealthy countries fuck up in wealthy ways.

Minor or serious, no country is gonna be fuck up free. I consider Oz and NZ to be fortunate and I wish we had your policies at the beginning of this.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby sparrow » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:16 am

Australia had 2 deaths today and none yesterday. They're doing fine.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby ROB » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:25 am

The lack of vaccinated people is a problem. The gov didn't predict the need. Even though people overseas were dying.

So yeah, it's a fuckup but only the next 12 months will tell how bad that fuckup was.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby Kurt » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:37 am

New York State just upped our death count from COVID by 12k.

Turns out we only classified deaths of COVID in Hospitals, jails and nursing homes as COVID deaths.

And, by comparison we handled it pretty well compared to yhe rest of the US.

We sent sick people into nursing homes with COVID, covered it up and hid the real body count and coming hone from visiting Wisconsin and Iowa seemed like I had left Crazyland for the place that sane people live.

I mean keep vigilant and order vaccines and stuff but it will take bodies on the sidewalk before i stop envying you.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby vagabond » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:08 pm

Kurt wrote:I mean keep vigilant and order vaccines and stuff but it will take bodies on the sidewalk before i stop envying you.


Y'all had refrigerated trailers full of bodies for a bit though. You would've thought that plus anyone seeing videos of the terrible effects of this would've been more than happy to get a jab.

Aside from that, it's been a weird crisis - even living in a dense neighborhood near a hospital during 2020 and you would never know that something was wrong other than the lack of traffic and masks. When visiting my folks in Faux News territory, it was more likely that I was to hear that someone had had COVID, knew people that had died from it, etc.

I do think the traditional anti-vaxx crowd are a pretty vocal and annoying minority compared those I guess we would call 'vaccine hesistant'. The people I talked to on that visit were mainly young couples that were afraid because of this infertility myth. The irony I guess is that no one told them that one of the side effects of COVID could be infertility (among, of course, death). People should be amazed and grateful that we even got a vaccine in the time we did. 2020-2021 may have sucked but I'd rather be alive now with this than if the pandemic had happened 5-10 years ago.

Other ironies include everyone discovering "their freedoms" in regards to a piece of cloth when we're near the 20th anniversary of losing a lot of them due to the PATRIOT ACT. Like, we're still taking off our shoes at the goddamn airport for no reason.

The only controversial take I have, because you can never say stuff about kids, is that even though infections/hospitalizations are up for under 12s, there have still only been 500 deaths out 520k the CDC has demographic data on for under 18s with extremely low rates of vaccinations for 12-18 year olds[1]. So all this fuss about schools, masks, etc just seems like wasted time and energy on BS again. That and this talk of a third booster to me, at least, make a stronger argument for getting vaccines out to countries with weaker health systems, etc.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/25/pediatr ... -more.html

[2] - Nice graphs with demographic breakouts - https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_5.html
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby el3so » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:42 pm

vagabond wrote: The only controversial take I have, because you can never say stuff about kids, is that even though infections/hospitalizations are up for under 12s, there have still only been 500 deaths out 520k the CDC has demographic data on for under 18s with extremely low rates of vaccinations for 12-18 year olds[1]. So all this fuss about schools, masks, etc just seems like wasted time and energy on BS again.
Nothing controversial about that.
Schools reopening with or without masks is more about exposing the children's parents/caregivers (and grandparents or other elderly etc relatives) to the disease.

vagabond wrote: That and this talk of a third booster to me, at least, make a stronger argument for getting vaccines out to countries with weaker health systems, etc.
In an ideal world, maybe.
Seeing how the pfizer dose has a short shelf-life, the logistics involved and money making the world go round, all those shots refused by American citizens and other first-world contrarians (being polite for conversation's sake here) are wasted instead of being sent to those less-privileged nations where people would probably welcome it.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby vagabond » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:53 pm

el3so wrote: vagabond wrote:
The only controversial take I have, because you can never say stuff about kids, is that even though infections/hospitalizations are up for under 12s, there have still only been 500 deaths out 520k the CDC has demographic data on for under 18s with extremely low rates of vaccinations for 12-18 year olds[1]. So all this fuss about schools, masks, etc just seems like wasted time and energy on BS again.

Nothing controversial about that.
Schools reopening with or without masks is more about exposing the children's parents/caregivers (and grandparents or other elderly etc relatives) to the disease.


Right...which means if those parents/caregivers are vaccinated it shouldn't be so bad if they do contract it.

Parents fighting this stuff more than they do when someone kills a classroom of elementary kids.

vagabond wrote:
That and this talk of a third booster to me, at least, make a stronger argument for getting vaccines out to countries with weaker health systems, etc.


In an ideal world, maybe.
Seeing how the pfizer dose has a short shelf-life, the logistics involved and money making the world go round, all those shots refused by American citizens and other first-world contrarians (being polite for conversation's sake here) are wasted instead of being sent to those less-privileged nations where people would probably welcome it.


Yep. :(

From what I understand, that's why there's a semantic difference between our still being in a pandemic for the time being and this becoming endemic but I'm not medical specialist. My assumption is this is with us for a while, there will be increasingly dangerous versions of it, but most of us in the developed world will have adequate protection eventually (and those that refuse will die out).
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Postby el3so » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:31 pm

vagabond wrote: Right... which means if those parents/caregivers are vaccinated it shouldn't be so bad if they do contract it.
Sure. But if a lot of them are not, they will clog up the health care system which leads to even more excess deaths, system seems frayed already after last year and a half. Doubt many people are okay to deal with that.
vagabond wrote: Parents fighting this stuff more than they do when someone kills a classroom of elementary kids.
I think there is more space for nuance in the firearms regulation, 2nd Amendment debate than there is in how to deal with a global infectious disease.
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Re:

Postby vagabond » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:03 am

el3so wrote:
vagabond wrote: Right... which means if those parents/caregivers are vaccinated it shouldn't be so bad if they do contract it.


Sure. But if a lot of them are not, they will clog up the health care system which leads to even more excess deaths, system seems frayed already after last year and a half. Doubt many people are okay to deal with that.


True and that's been the case since the beginning when we were supposed to lockdown. The doctors and nurses I know are burned out and we're starting to see that in the news. There's a lot of frustration with the plateauing of vaccinations here when it was in a good window to be resolved before we got to this point (in the US). There's also frustration with the nurses and other healthcare workers that refuse to get vaccinated, which will probably change now with the FDA approval. When I worked at a hospital, to be hired, you had to show or receive vaccinations for plenty of stuff, do a pee test, and do a yearly TB test. Non-negotiable. Looking forward to seeing more police and firefighters complaining about it.

vagabond wrote: Parents fighting this stuff more than they do when someone kills a classroom of elementary kids.
I think there is more space for nuance in the firearms regulation, 2nd Amendment debate than there is in how to deal with a global infectious disease.


I might've gone a bit far in that but it's not too nuanced to me - one kills people, one prevents disease and death. Or maybe you mean the ways that that is dealt with when the cat is already out of the bag. I'll recuse myself from going further since it's probably smart to keep this focused on this dumb virus instead of such a seemingly intractable issue in the US.

I will say that the past year and half of not dealing well with a global outbreak, that we have intelligent people who studied and made playbooks for such situations, has not inspired much hope for me in dealing with a less obvious and equally dangerous long term problem like climate change. But that's what the whisky is for I guess.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby El Pelon » Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:29 pm

Well I caught the black death. I had a headache and a fever for one day and then it was gone. A complete nothing burger for me. ProjectAlice had a bit more of a run and she has felt like crap for a few days but she's turned the corner. In the end, Quercetin, Vit D3, Vit C and Zinc worked. Project Alice took ivermectin and had good results.

The immune system works when given what it needs to do the job.
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Postby el3so » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:20 am

Glad the two of you made it El Pelon.
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Re: Outbreak...

Postby Kurt » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:36 pm

El Pelon wrote:Well I caught the black death. I had a headache and a fever for one day and then it was gone. A complete nothing burger for me. ProjectAlice had a bit more of a run and she has felt like crap for a few days but she's turned the corner. In the end, Quercetin, Vit D3, Vit C and Zinc worked. Project Alice took ivermectin and had good results.

The immune system works when given what it needs to do the job.

Yeesh, I have been worried about a few people here and COVID (worried about MJK mostly but i am sure it is easy for him to limit exposure)
My wife had her Pfizer booster and the only side effect was her older mosquito bites flared up.
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