Oath Keepers Trial

[Alphabet]

I'll bet money that more PB and Oathkeepers types are as ready to see Memphis burn after what just happened than you'd think.

Obviously there are outliers in any organization, but if you think the above mentioned don't see/acknowledge police brutality along the lines ANTIFA and BLM does, you're mistaken.

[vagabond]

I'll bet money that more PB and Oathkeepers types are as ready to see Memphis burn after what just happened than you'd think.

Obviously there are outliers in any organization, but if you think the above mentioned don't see/acknowledge police brutality along the lines ANTIFA and BLM does, you're mistaken.

Sorry, I'm not mistaken. I've seen the videos, photos of aftermath, etc. It's a double standard. Kurt and I have dropped stories and links. You've dropped continued denials without any evidence.

Here's a more recent example: 1 dead and terrorist charges for environmental protestors vs storming the Capitol

https://grist.org/protest/atlanta-cop-city-terrorism/

A burst of gunfire rang through a forest on the edge of Atlanta, Georgia, on the morning of January 18. Manuel Esteban Paez Terán, whose chosen name was Tortuguita (Spanish for “little turtle”), had been shot and killed by police officers, becoming the only known person killed by law enforcement during an environmentalist act of land defense in the U.S.

...

To allies, Tortuguita’s killing was the climax of an escalation of police and legal tactics meant to stifle the wide-ranging movement to stop construction of the training center, which includes parks advocates, prison abolitionists, and area neighborhood associations. Over the course of December and January, 19 opponents of the police training center have been charged with felonies under Georgia’s rarely used 2017 domestic terrorism law. But Grist’s review of 20 arrest warrants shows that none of those arrested and slapped with terrorism charges are accused of seriously injuring anyone. Nine are alleged to have committed no specific illegal actions beyond misdemeanor trespassing. Instead, their mere association with a group committed to defending the forest appears to be the foundation for declaring them terrorists. Officials have underlined that an investigation is ongoing, and charges could yet be added or removed.

[Tarkan]

1) I get the feeling you're not as big a fan of Graeber as a lot of folks are. Would like to hear more

2) The guys in camo, or black and yellow fred perry shirs, or carrying guns, carrying torches in Charlottesville were 'flying under the radar'? No, they just get a pass

Well, the right-wing guys in Charlottesville actually applied for and were granted an assembly permit. In other words, they actually went through the legal process to hold a rally. Antifa, OTOH, was not granted a permit and just showed up / were bussed in to disrupt the rally and attack the rally goers. Charlottesville then decided, right as the Spencer people got to the rally site, to cancel the permit and forced them back with riot shields INTO Antifa who was waiting for them. The entire time the Spencer people were polite with the police. So, yeah, law enforcement is going to generally treat you a little different when you go through a permit process, as opposed to just showing up and attacking people, throwing shit at police in storm trooper gear, and breaking shit. Weird how that works.

[Tarkan]

I'll bet money that more PB and Oathkeepers types are as ready to see Memphis burn after what just happened than you'd think.

Obviously there are outliers in any organization, but if you think the above mentioned don't see/acknowledge police brutality along the lines ANTIFA and BLM does, you're mistaken.

Sorry, I'm not mistaken. I've seen the videos, photos of aftermath, etc. It's a double standard. Kurt and I have dropped stories and links. You've dropped continued denials without any evidence.

Here's a more recent example: 1 dead and terrorist charges for environmental protestors vs storming the Capitol

https://grist.org/protest/atlanta-cop-city-terrorism/

A burst of gunfire rang through a forest on the edge of Atlanta, Georgia, on the morning of January 18. Manuel Esteban Paez Terán, whose chosen name was Tortuguita (Spanish for “little turtle”), had been shot and killed by police officers, becoming the only known person killed by law enforcement during an environmentalist act of land defense in the U.S.

...

To allies, Tortuguita’s killing was the climax of an escalation of police and legal tactics meant to stifle the wide-ranging movement to stop construction of the training center, which includes parks advocates, prison abolitionists, and area neighborhood associations. Over the course of December and January, 19 opponents of the police training center have been charged with felonies under Georgia’s rarely used 2017 domestic terrorism law. But Grist’s review of 20 arrest warrants shows that none of those arrested and slapped with terrorism charges are accused of seriously injuring anyone. Nine are alleged to have committed no specific illegal actions beyond misdemeanor trespassing. Instead, their mere association with a group committed to defending the forest appears to be the foundation for declaring them terrorists. Officials have underlined that an investigation is ongoing, and charges could yet be added or removed.

Manuel Esteban Paez Terán shot and wounded a police officer, didn't he?

[Alphabet]

I'll bet money that more PB and Oathkeepers types are as ready to see Memphis burn after what just happened than you'd think.

Obviously there are outliers in any organization, but if you think the above mentioned don't see/acknowledge police brutality along the lines ANTIFA and BLM does, you're mistaken.

Sorry, I'm not mistaken. I've seen the videos, photos of aftermath, etc. It's a double standard. Kurt and I have dropped stories and links. You've dropped continued denials without any evidence.

Here's a more recent example: 1 dead and terrorist charges for environmental protestors vs storming the Capitol

https://grist.org/protest/atlanta-cop-city-terrorism/

A burst of gunfire rang through a forest on the edge of Atlanta, Georgia, on the morning of January 18. Manuel Esteban Paez Terán, whose chosen name was Tortuguita (Spanish for “little turtle”), had been shot and killed by police officers, becoming the only known person killed by law enforcement during an environmentalist act of land defense in the U.S.

...

To allies, Tortuguita’s killing was the climax of an escalation of police and legal tactics meant to stifle the wide-ranging movement to stop construction of the training center, which includes parks advocates, prison abolitionists, and area neighborhood associations. Over the course of December and January, 19 opponents of the police training center have been charged with felonies under Georgia’s rarely used 2017 domestic terrorism law. But Grist’s review of 20 arrest warrants shows that none of those arrested and slapped with terrorism charges are accused of seriously injuring anyone. Nine are alleged to have committed no specific illegal actions beyond misdemeanor trespassing. Instead, their mere association with a group committed to defending the forest appears to be the foundation for declaring them terrorists. Officials have underlined that an investigation is ongoing, and charges could yet be added or removed.

Getting into firefights with law enforcement usually ends up that way. I don't recall any PB, Oathkeepers, Boogaloo Bois..whatever engaging in active firefights with law enforcement.

I also don't recall any ANTIFA getting shot in the face, or thrown off stairs. I do recall some catching charges for trying to burn down a Federal courthouse, and a police precinct lit on fire. Surprisingly none charged with insurrection or shot in the face.

I don't give a fuck about either side. As in all things, they both have valid arguments, even to the point some of their positions align. Whatever.

I have too much advanced wannabe old man hermit to give a fuck. To me, it's a self correcting issue.

But that doesn't mean facts aren't facts, and I won't be disingenuous about that.

You do you.

[Kurt]

Boogs have been known to shoot at cops.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/11/10803119 ... 2020-prote

[Kurt]

One thing that the P.B defense attorneys are kicking ass with is getting the Feds and the cops to admit that the "Less than Lethal" methods of crowd control are not designed to control crowds, they are designed to cause chaos and enrage crowds and then have the cops swoop in, beat some heads, make mass arrests, and then turn it over to the next shift.

The problem with J6 is that they had "Massive Police forces uses LtL ammo to disrupt and contain crowd" in their playbook but Trumpers pulled resources for that day so they hit them with the LtL shit and then got their asses kicked by the crowd. If I was on the Jury that bit alone would lead me to acquit those traitorous fucks. (Unless the actual conspiracy was shown to be overwhelming, which is hard to do)

So right now as an armchair juror and someone who would prolly be considered to be "Antifa" I would be leaning towards acquittal.

[el3so]

Boogs have been known to shoot at cops.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/11/10803119 ... 2020-prote

Shoot at and killed a federal guard.
from the article Steven Carrillo, 33, changed his plea to guilty to a federal murder charge in the killing of David Patrick Underwood and to the attempted murder of Underwood's colleague after federal prosecutors last month agreed not to seek the death penalty.

Sounds about as well-adjusted an individual as that green guy getting shot in his tent.

[el3so]

One thing that the P.B defense attorneys are kicking ass with is getting the Feds and the cops to admit that the "Less than Lethal" methods of crowd control are not designed to control crowds, they are designed to cause chaos and enrage crowds and then have the cops swoop in, beat some heads, make mass arrests, and then turn it over to the next shift.

Over here, people get run over by someone on a horse if they don't clear the area. Better PR than those sonic electronic ball breakers.

[Alphabet]

"Alleged" boog boy. Just like the "alleged" Bernie Bro who shot up the House baseball game. Because of a Facebook post.

C'mon. Are we really taking the Fed's word for it on anything at this point?

[Kurt]

"Alleged" boog boy. Just like the "alleged" Bernie Bro who shot up the House baseball game. Because of a Facebook post.

C'mon. Are we really taking the Fed's word for it on anything at this point?

He was a Bernie Bro. Sanders acknowledged that right before denouncing him.

---edit--

and not taking Feds word on Anything but it is a matter of who is more trustworthy. A guy with a gun who murders who says he is not a Boog or the Feds who say the guy with the gun who committed murder was a Boog.

Another one would be if I trust Biden. No, not really. But if offered the choice between trusting Biden over MTG I am taking Biden. I'd rather have some other choice but that's where we are in many areas so that's what I am taking.

Would you rather have a Democratic process vote and risk taking away your shit? Nope. Would I chose a dictator or unelected President / Congress / Senate to to not decide to take my shit? Nope.
Which do I choose? The Democratic process and hope I can vote to keep my shit since non-democratic ones outside to Lichtenstein more unreliable.

On a weird note many lefties are coming out in favor of Boogs, which is like super, extra dumb.

[el3so]

"Alleged" boog boy. Are we really taking the Fed's word for it on anything at this point?

Alleged murderer as well if we're gonna split hairs.
Your federal and other law enforcement agencies use a different set of rules/guidelines than over here. Different legal reality and not my country. In the war on terror thing, FBI managed to keep the image of their badges being pretty clean. March of time, new tech, dunno how much stuff stays secret in public trials.
Truth wills out.

On a weird note many lefties are coming out in favor of Boogs, which is like super, extra dumb.

Use of force as a means for political change in a democratic system isn't a thing that gets a lot of traction with responsible adults.

[Kurt]

One thing that the P.B defense attorneys are kicking ass with is getting the Feds and the cops to admit that the "Less than Lethal" methods of crowd control are not designed to control crowds, they are designed to cause chaos and enrage crowds and then have the cops swoop in, beat some heads, make mass arrests, and then turn it over to the next shift.

The problem with J6 is that they had "Massive Police forces uses LtL ammo to disrupt and contain crowd" in their playbook but Trumpers pulled resources for that day so they hit them with the LtL shit and then got their asses kicked by the crowd. If I was on the Jury that bit alone would lead me to acquit those traitorous fucks. (Unless the actual conspiracy was shown to be overwhelming, which is hard to do)

So right now as an armchair juror and someone who would prolly be considered to be "Antifa" I would be leaning towards acquittal.

Of course Prosecutors have this.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... eturns.pdf

Made by one of Tarrio's three girlfriends. (I am pretty sure he is gonna die fucking or die getting killed by one of them, cuz he is gonna snitch his way out of prison when he gets locked up)

So the plans to seize a good portion of the Government buildings on Certification day do seem to Trump the cops "Pepper spray to rile and contain" fail-plan.

Also it was really, really dumb of them to get a Documentarian to film them. Roger Stone had a Danish Film crew and the Proud Boys had Quested. If David Graeber had been alive and involved in the protests of 2020 he would have had Quested AND the Danes follow him around. That dude loved film crews. RIP

[Kurt]

I am tracking the Proud Boys Sedition trial.

That Norm Pattis guy....Probably would have been best for the defendant to have him suspended before this trial. He is the guy who boned discovery and released a full image of Alex Jones phone rather than just relevant trial material for the lawsuit against him. The plaintiff's attorney then notified Pattis that he made a mistake and he should re-submit the evidence, but the time limit after the notification passed and the phone's image in it's entirety was allowed as part of discovery. So Pattis was suspended because Jones had possession of medical information on other Sandyhook defendants in an earlier lawsuit that violated HIPAA. But he was granted reprieve for this trial.

One thing I heard about Criminal trials is to never have Gang Members testify in your defense, especially members of your gang. The best are co-workers and clergy. Next best are strait and narrow friends. Edging to the world of "bad" is your mom but nothing is worse than having co-criminals testify to your character and your intents and whereabouts.

Anyway, one guy they got to testify for Ethan Nordean (since his parents disowned him and he has no friends from his time prior to the Proudboys...to me that is telling since I still have friends who I played in the sandbox with as a kid) was one of those temporary lead singers for the Misfits that they used for Halloween party gigs after Danzig left, a guy named Michale Graves. A Proud Boy, conspiracy theorist who creates music to this day and is still coasting on his 1996 to 2001 years playing "An Evening With The Misfits".

His testimony was basically "We hit the food trucks when the capitol was breeched" but on cross examination it turned out that Discount Danzig was never at the Food Trucks, did not return to their AirB&B at 3pm with Nordean and was constantly trying to lie without incriminating himself with a crime and settled on "If I posted it, it means I believed it at the time even if it was not true"

Nordean's other Witness was worse. A guy by the name of Travis Nugent, who would probably be a professional football thug in the UK, was testifying that, again, they were not storming the capitol because they were at the food trucks, got tripped up on cross examination when asked about his texts at the time that were basically "Lets beat up cops" and really tripped up when he tried to cover his own ass for crimes when he claims he said "Lets go" and Nordean did not hear him so Nordean stayed, but that changed from his original statement which was "Nordean Chose not to hear me so he stayed" which he then said in his testimony that Nordean was not at the food trucks, and that when given the chance to leave the Capitol grounds he stayed.

Great witness.

The Government is moving to Impeach these witnesses and that might actually help the defense if their testimony is not permitted. Kind of weird how the prosecution's typical motions can actually help a defendant because their defense is so sad.

Anyway, today their witness is a wheelchair bound videoographer (These dudes loved filming themselves). Their other film maker, the English guy, filmed them complaining about the Wheel Chair Bound Proud Boy getting stuck in the mud and they debated leaving his "crippled ass" there. So this should be fun.

[Tarkan]

Anyway, today their witness is a wheelchair bound videoographer (These dudes loved filming themselves). Their other film maker, the English guy, filmed them complaining about the Wheel Chair Bound Proud Boy getting stuck in the mud and they debated leaving his "crippled ass" there. So this should be fun.

Hey, at least they are inclusive. That's gotta count for something.