Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Chimborazo » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:11 am

mb wrote:Is there a local university Ag extension? They may know the local tricks for all these things.


Oh, that reminds me...here in Virginia, the Department of Wildlife Resources offers some help with this sort of thing. Perhaps Florida has something similar?
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Alphabet » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:35 pm

Chimborazo wrote: Dude, have you ever worn a lungi/sarong? Feels great, and I'd be rocking one if I had a place like that.


Lived in Miami with a girl who grew up in Kuai, and her home had no AC. We lost power one night in fucking August, and she whipped out 2 pā'ū's doused them in cold water, and we slept on the balcony. Was tits, so I'm tracking what you're saying. And yeah, it's my land...If you don't want to see me on a quad in a sarong with my nuts hanging out, and AK strapped on my back...boo hoo.




Chimborazo wrote: Have you considered building two gardens; one for you and one for the critters? It sounds silly and like a lot of work, but if you can keep the groundhogs, rabbits, and other critters away from your garden, it might actually be cost effective and worth the effort. And you could plant some clover and chicory on your range for the deer to stay full. In other words, food plots to keep them away from the stuff you want to eat. I don't know if it will work, but it might at least reduce the damage to your garden.


Great idea. Decoy garden. Again, it'll just me be fucking off for the most part and growing what I can for the table, it isn't the end of the world if they eat some of my carrots. Until it is, then ehhh...sorry Mr. Rabbit, I'm sniping you for the stew.



Chimborazo wrote: What are the downsides to this? Are there some weird legal issues that could cause you problems?


Right now, my knowledge of this is ancillary. There are AG exemptions in Fl, but right I know right now is just random internet talk, and guys talking about it around a campfire. So, going to have to dig deeper.



Chimborazo wrote: I hate mosquitoes, and I love bats, so I love this idea. If you're willing to put in a pond with lots of plants, you could probably design one that would allow breeding of dragonflies while also allowing you to keep mosquitofish. It might be a bit tricky though because the mosquitofish will also eat dragonfly larvae. Plus ponds can be a pain in the ass so if you're not into them then it'll just be another chore and expense. I love them and would love to have on again, but I totally get that they're not for everyone.


Only water on my property is on the northern boundary, and it's a river. A pond for me comes into along the lines of why I started this thread, and me not currently having the time to manage one. Ie: if there isn't one already there, is me putting one in going to fuck the ecosystem? Also along those lines, because I''m digging your dragonfly idea...could I simulate a habitat for them in multiple stock tanks vs a pond?


Chimborazo wrote: I'm not rucking a hog kill more than 10 feet, much less 100 yards, so yeah, I get that. Speaking of the hogs, what do you do with the big ones you're not going to eat (or do you eat them all)? If you're trying to control them, I assume that means high body counts that may be difficult to keep up with since I assume you also don't want a lot of carcasses lying around rotting on your property.


My current hunting plot for hogs (that I'll eat) is way in the sticks on a lease. I've found that hogs who are too close to human habitat eat fucking everything including our trash, and the pork just sucks. If I'm hunting where they are near humans, it is merely attempting to cull an invasive species, and we leave it for the coyotes and other varmints. My land is far enough away that shouldn't be an issue. My neighbors on both sides and I scouted a good portion of my land, and near the river we saw a shit ton of hog tracks. We're guessing there's a herd that moves back and forth along the 3 properties. I might get one of those circular traps that you can bait, it pings your phone when there is movement inside so you can cut the camera on and see if it's hogs or some other animal, drop the gate and then just kill at will. I've been on group hunts where we've killed 80-90 hogs, we'll keep a few, but then donate the rest to a shelter, food bank, church, whatever. There's no season, limit or permit needed for them here. Piglets, sows..anything. Murder central. Again, civilization hasn't collapsed so my only primary reason to fuck them up is that they just destroy everything. The deer here are already tiny enough, and the hogs are decimating what food the deer do get to eat. And no one here is trying to fatten deer up to hunt on their own land, because that'll never happen. Especially when 90 miles north in either Alabama or Georgia, you're getting monster bucks on peanut farms.

I'm super lucky that I'm in Tallahassee, and have both Florida A&M and FSU here, so it's easy to reach out to the relevant departments for what I'm trying to do. Also have a friend who works with FWC, so I have that in my cargo pocket as well.


Really the goal here is to leave it in a trust to my kiddos. As unmolested as possible. I was up there yesterday, and saw one of the biggest red tail hawks I've seen in a hot minute. Going to be interesting watching the aerial combat if/when I get Great Horned Owls on the property.
Last edited by Alphabet on Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Alphabet » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:42 pm

mb wrote:If you can find someone you trust you can let them hunt on your land while you're out of town. Keeps an eye on it for sure!

Cattle... well I think cattle shit is environmentally a bit of a mess. But manageable. Have to know how it affects your drinking water.

Is there a local university Ag extension? They may know the local tricks for all these things.



My neighbor has I think like 15 cattle as a write off. I'm still exploring the actual legality of letting them graze on those 2 acres for the write off, so we'll see.

I'm very lucky that I have FSU and FAMU nearby, and both have extensive AG/Wildlife/Forestry programs.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Chimborazo » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:20 pm

Alphabet wrote:
Chimborazo wrote: I hate mosquitoes, and I love bats, so I love this idea. If you're willing to put in a pond with lots of plants, you could probably design one that would allow breeding of dragonflies while also allowing you to keep mosquitofish. It might be a bit tricky though because the mosquitofish will also eat dragonfly larvae. Plus ponds can be a pain in the ass so if you're not into them then it'll just be another chore and expense. I love them and would love to have on again, but I totally get that they're not for everyone.


Only water on my property is on the northern boundary, and it's a river. A pond for me comes into along the lines of why I started this thread, and me not currently having the time to manage one. Ie: if there isn't one already there, is me putting one in going to fuck the ecosystem? Also along those lines, because I''m digging your dragonfly idea...could I simulate a habitat for them in multiple stock tanks vs a pond?



I am far from an expert on this, so I don't really know, but I think if done properly and with advice from people who know what they're talking about (i.e. not me), I think it could actually help the ecosystem, not harm it. As for the dragonflies, I don't know if tanks would work, but they might. I'm assuming you get enough rain down there to keep a really small pond filled? If so, you could make some shallow ponds and fill them with lillies. The risk is that until you can attract the dragonflies, you may make your mosquito problem worse.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Kurt » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:03 am

I love dragonflies. The last place I lived in Brooklyn was 7 floors up and that was the same level as these big-ass dragonflies. They would eat houseflies.
So houseflies would sit on the window being gross and suddenly we would hear this "thump", "thump" "thump" and it would be 1 or two of these big dragonflies with maroon thoraxes hitting the window while eating flies.

I then decided I wanted a yard filled with them when we moved but to order dragonfly larva you need at least a pond.

Annnndd...I just found the coolest website.

https://worlddragonfly.org/
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Chimborazo » Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:26 pm

Kurt wrote:I love dragonflies. The last place I lived in Brooklyn was 7 floors up and that was the same level as these big-ass dragonflies. They would eat houseflies.
So houseflies would sit on the window being gross and suddenly we would hear this "thump", "thump" "thump" and it would be 1 or two of these big dragonflies with maroon thoraxes hitting the window while eating flies.

I then decided I wanted a yard filled with them when we moved but to order dragonfly larva you need at least a pond.

Annnndd...I just found the coolest website.

https://worlddragonfly.org/


Holy crap, that's awesome.

It didn't occur to me that you could buy larva, which is awesome. It reminds me of the time my father ordered praying mantis eggs that were supposed to be put out a couple of months later. He put them on a shelf in the kitchen and forgot about them. Long story short, one day before school/work, the four of us were using sheets of paper to get about 500 newly hatched praying mantises (which look like dust as I recall) outside. We discovered some time later that some of the ones we missed evaded the cats' jaws and dogs' paws and were living in the bay window that was filled with plants. Once the got big enough we moved them outside so they wouldn't run out of food.

alphabet, I just read that dragonflies will travel quite a ways from a water source (~1 mile?), so you may be able to attract them from the river with a garden of black-eyed Susan, swamp milkweed, and Joe-pye weed. Here's a pretty cool article too - https://www.treehugger.com/how-create-dragonfly-garden-4863982.

I'm about a mile from the James River in Richmond, VA, so I may plant a garden for them, but if I have my way, I'll put in a small pond.
"The terrain is just too wiley coyote for me to risk it. Slam into arch, rope breaks, in the distance as I plummet 'meep meep'" -Caliban
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Kurt » Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:14 pm

The Chinese mantises are big enough to eat Japanese Beetles...SO I am considering getting a batch of them going.

I bought an egg sack of them one year and it was awesome. Huge Zoraks running around the garden, but apparently they eat everything...helpful or not. So I didn't order them last year and Japanese beetles ate my hop plants and two hydrangeas.

Gonna order lady bugs too for my pepper plants. Aphids love peppers.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Alphabet » Sun Feb 12, 2023 2:29 am

Had mini male and female me up this week.

Mini female me who loves cats confirmed that any barn ones will absolutely wreck the property. She helped me set up hummingbird feeders and bat boxes.

Mini male me brought his drone, and we, well he to be honest, mapped out the property with video footage. What he at 17 did in a day would have taken me a week do to with a lensatic compass and a map. Fucking smarter, not harder. Saw what we think is an owl nest, and immediately backed off hoping it is one.

Also...Ladybugs, Hummingbirds, and Dragonflies are tits. It's like the offspring of an A-10, C-130 gunship, and a Bell Ah-1 Cobra rolled all into one.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Chimborazo » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:30 pm

Alphabet wrote:Had mini male and female me up this week.

Mini female me who loves cats confirmed that any barn ones will absolutely wreck the property. She helped me set up hummingbird feeders and bat boxes.

Mini male me brought his drone, and we, well he to be honest, mapped out the property with video footage. What he at 17 did in a day would have taken me a week do to with a lensatic compass and a map. Fucking smarter, not harder. Saw what we think is an owl nest, and immediately backed off hoping it is one.


I really wish you hadn't stated his age. I was much more entertained imagining a couple of toddlers running around schooling you on these topics and getting shit done. By the way, did she say anything about placement of the bat boxes (for example, placing them so they get morning sun)? It may not be as important down there, but I think up here in VA they should get morning sun (or is it afternoon sun? Shit.). Unfortunately, I don't get any direct morning sun on my property.

Alphabet wrote:Also...Ladybugs, Hummingbirds, and Dragonflies are tits. It's like the offspring of an A-10, C-130 gunship, and a Bell Ah-1 Cobra rolled all into one.


I love it.
"The terrain is just too wiley coyote for me to risk it. Slam into arch, rope breaks, in the distance as I plummet 'meep meep'" -Caliban
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Kurt » Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:05 pm

This is what I am getting for my peperoncini plants this year.

https://www.insectlore.com/collections/ ... f-ladybugs

Ladybugs are "cute" in the classic sense. Round and polka dotted. But the Larvae are nightmares in the classic sense. Black, elongated, a bit spiky with mandibles.


Yahhh Bug porn.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby snaark » Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:44 am

Sounds like a cool project. I love the idea of buying a block and "re-wilding" it. But I live in a Nanny state that doesn't let you do anything without approval.

+1 for cats though. They kill everything if allowed outside.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Alphabet » Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:27 am

Chimborazo wrote:I really wish you hadn't stated his age. I was much more entertained imagining a couple of toddlers running around schooling you on these topics and getting shit done. By the way, did she say anything about placement of the bat boxes (for example, placing them so they get morning sun)? It may not be as important down there, but I think up here in VA they should get morning sun (or is it afternoon sun? Shit.). Unfortunately, I don't get any direct morning sun on my property.


It has been a weird winter in NW Florida. We've seen temps from the 20s to the 80s to the 60s all in a week. High winds and a shit ton of rain one day, to dead calm and high humidity the next. Hell, I was South of Tampa when the big freeze hit, and it was in the 40s during the day. Old ladies dressing like Eskimos.

So we've set up bat boxes, feeders..etc..etc..etc..in a bunch of different positions and tracking all the data to see which is best, without trying to be too intrusive and upsetting the balance. Which to be honest it pretty fucking fun, even though when the kids start talking maths, I do the Homer Simpson head back drooling.

We've basically reached the synergy where you two figure out the numbers, I'm the money. We're all seeking the same outcome. I'll kill the hogs, you help me figure out natural air support to keep snakes and mosquitoes away, and all will be tits.

I'm tracking the pond idea for Fleet support, I just deploy too much for work right now to give the attention one would need to be healthy.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Alphabet » Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:09 am

snaark wrote:Sounds like a cool project. I love the idea of buying a block and "re-wilding" it. But I live in a Nanny state that doesn't let you do anything without approval.

+1 for cats though. They kill everything if allowed outside.



My family has riverfront historic property in Heidelberg. So, I'm not ignorant of how things go over there. To be fair, it's only a little bit less here. The one thing, well...two things.. on this is that I get a veteran homestead exemption and the land is in an unincorporated area.

Which means just short of launching nukes and dumping toxic waste, I can do what I want. But, I also have to pay more for shit like drilling a well, power, emergency services like life flight, etc. I'm not rich, but Liberty be scary yo. Worth it.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby rickshaw92 » Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:59 pm

Sounds way cool geezer. Gotta put up some pics.
Im reallly fuclimg pissed but fespite that I can still hit a tarfet at 1000m plus. mayVRVe bnot tonight but it qint beyond the wit if man. Nowhammy.
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Re: Can we actually live in "harmony" with nature?

Postby Chimborazo » Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:45 pm

Alphabet wrote:
Chimborazo wrote:I really wish you hadn't stated his age. I was much more entertained imagining a couple of toddlers running around schooling you on these topics and getting shit done. By the way, did she say anything about placement of the bat boxes (for example, placing them so they get morning sun)? It may not be as important down there, but I think up here in VA they should get morning sun (or is it afternoon sun? Shit.). Unfortunately, I don't get any direct morning sun on my property.


It has been a weird winter in NW Florida. We've seen temps from the 20s to the 80s to the 60s all in a week. High winds and a shit ton of rain one day, to dead calm and high humidity the next. Hell, I was South of Tampa when the big freeze hit, and it was in the 40s during the day. Old ladies dressing like Eskimos.

So we've set up bat boxes, feeders..etc..etc..etc..in a bunch of different positions and tracking all the data to see which is best, without trying to be too intrusive and upsetting the balance. Which to be honest it pretty fucking fun, even though when the kids start talking maths, I do the Homer Simpson head back drooling.

We've basically reached the synergy where you two figure out the numbers, I'm the money. We're all seeking the same outcome. I'll kill the hogs, you help me figure out natural air support to keep snakes and mosquitoes away, and all will be tits.

I'm tracking the pond idea for Fleet support, I just deploy too much for work right now to give the attention one would need to be healthy.


I'm going to have to read up on bat boxes again...maybe I can put some up here. In my last neighborhood which was more somewhere between urban and suburban, there were tone of bats flying around every evening. In this neighborhood, which is in the City of Richmond (VA) but near the river and much more mature greenery, I haven't seen any. Maybe in the spring I'll see more (we just moved here in July and were so busy working on the house, we didn't get out much), or maybe I don't see them is much because of all the trees and hunting skies that make them harder to spot.

I hope to have more time this year to check out the local (like on my street) wildlife. We have lots of deer, foxes, some coyotes, owls, hawks, a shitload of tree frogs and toads, some snakes (I've found two Dekay's Brown Snakes and one of my neighbors got bitten by a copperhead in his yard a few months ago, but haven't seen any rat snakes), raccoons, crows (which I love), lots of other birds, squirrels, and fucking yellow jackets. At our last house we had a ton of rabbits, but I haven't seen any here. Haven't seen any opossums yet either, which sucks because they eat a lot of ticks.

I HATE yellow jackets. I just learned today that one trick to get the ground nests taken care of is to put a big scoop of peanut butter outside the entrance. Raccoons and skunks love them, so they'll be attracted to it and dig up the demon spawn themselves and dine like royalty, which is pretty badass. It will take them much longer to find them on their own, so the peanut butter marks the spot. If I can avoid any chemicals I will, but I did engage in a lot of recon and chemical warfare last summer after running a mower over a ground nest. There's also a bird that eats them, but I have to learn more about them (don't remember the name).
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