That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

The Black Flag Cafe is the place travelers come to share stories and advice. Moderated by Robert Young Pelton the author of The World's Most Dangerous Places.

Moderator: coldharvest

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Alphabet » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:20 am

Kurt wrote:
Alphabet wrote:
So..

Majewski (R) and the GOP actually cut off support for him.
Warren (D)
Blumenthal (D)
Shavers (D)
And I mean literally everything Biden has said about his past..

Again, not about whataboutism, I'm just curious if your definition of whathefuckism only extends to Republicans..


Biden and others literally lead to Santos. So I do think Republicans find "big lies" to be more acceptable than Dems do but the Dems were just as guilty and ARE just as guilty at all the smaller lies (not little, but definitely smaller) as Republicans.

"Cornpop" was a "Whatthefuckism" before Trump raised the bar with "I won" and then Santos raised it further with literally everthing that oozed out of his mouth.

The Dems ignore lies from their leaders but the Republicans embrace the lies and see the lies as valuable. That is the difference.



Blumenthal literally said he served in Vietnam. He didn't. He served during Vietnam...well in 1970 when the war was pretty much over, stateside. Ok. No problem. He served. Should have been enough to just say that. After the 5 draft deferments and all.

Went on to be AG of Connecticut.


Committee on Armed Services
Subcommittee on Cybersecurity
Subcommittee on Readiness and Management Support
Subcommittee on SeaPower
Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation
Subcommittee on Consumer Protection, Product Safety, and Data Security (Chairman)
Committee on the Judiciary
Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights
Subcommittee on Human Rights and the Law
Subcommittee on Immigration, Citizenship, and Border Safety
Subcommittee on the Constitution (Chair)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs.

Santos:

Committee assignments
Committee on Small Business
Committee on Space, Science, and Technology


I don't disagree that Santos is a POS. But do you think that's actually a balanced response?
Alphabet
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:48 am

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:07 pm

Unlike Santos, Blumthal was exposed by the NY Time while running.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyre ... nthal.html

Santos was exposed by an Alternative Weekly on Long Island while running and everyone ignored it. Even the Democrats who felt they "needed more money" to investigate Santos properly didn't say anything.

Blumthal appears to have used the Vietnam lie quite often. But he still went to Harvard, Graduated, worked with Moynihan and Nixon with various resume building "Urban" stuff. His last use of Vietnam was to shame Democrats into accepting the Iraq War in 2003 by claiming maltreatment when "he returned from Vietnam" so at the time he was useful to both parties who both wanted that war to proceed.

Other political liars about war are Ronald Reagan. Who claimed that when he served in WWII he just wanted to go home and make love to his wife. Which he could have done at any time since he served in the Army's Propaganda / Information Film divisions in Los Angeles where he lived with his wife the whole time. But he got elected Governor and President with that lie, but everything else except the War shit was pretty much true.

Bush II served in The Texas and Alabama National Guard as a Pilot during Vietnam. Bush II never claimed to be IN Vietnam but he did claim to be a skilled pilot who served honorably.

Then fake documents started to appear that would have been forged in the 1990s written in praise of his performance. The DoD then blocked access to his service records which woudl have shown he was a shitty pilot who was AWOL. Bush II was odd because Conservative Mil Bloggers from the Free Republic exposed the forged documents and the "Liberal" press found out he was AWOL and probably coked out of his head. But thanks to a unified Government, Republican and Democrat effort the only major media that exposed this, CBS News, lost their anchor Dan Rather over it.

So we got the rot. We've had it for a long time (not to mention "Tailgunner Joe" McCarthy). Shit, we even had people calling for John Kerry to be arrested for Treason for being anti-Vietnam war (Not anti-Iraq War) AND serving in combat in Vietnam.

That is probably why Santos will never be expelled by anyone but voters. Both parties have too much riding on the lies. If Santos had not lied about literally everything while stealing shit from people he would have been ingnored like Blumthal and Reagan. GWB is unique in that he had bipartisan protection for his lies while running against an actual war hero.

So fair, yah pretty much, but none of us will ever get to change what is actually "fair" or not.

POS, yep. But the big difference is his lies had bipartisan support and he used the rest of his accomplishments to pad the Vietnam lie. He really did all the other stuff he did. Shit, 5 deferments? That's Donald Trump and Bill Clinton smart in getting out of a stupid war.
Santos literally has nothing but lies. Those lies are only useful to one party
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Tarkan » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:28 pm

Kurt wrote:
Alphabet wrote:Politicians lie. Won't turn this thread into whataboutism from plenty of Democrats who lied about their background.

Get rid of all of them.


There is Whataboutism and Whatthefuckism.

Whataboutism is finding that someone in both parties claimed they passed the Bar on their first try when they either did not pass it at all or passed it on their third try.

Whatthefuckism is George Santos.

But he is the logical pinnacle of what happens when we tolerate a bit of bullshit here and there in elected officials.


On the one hand, I agree with Kurt about the Whatthefuckism on Santos. On the other hand, Democrats are perfectly content with lying and accepting their politicians lying. Biden is a pathological liar and even exhibits "liar's delight" as a tell when he lies. And it's not like Biden has been particularly subtle with his lies. A lot of them are about as egregious and in WTF categories as Santos, and Biden has a much longer record of lying than Santos.

The primary attribute our society appears to demand from our politicians today is to be entertained. Everything else is largely secondary.
I'd whore myself out just one more time if I knew who to screw to get out of this grind.
User avatar
Tarkan
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 6027
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:57 am
Location: Texas

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Alphabet » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:33 pm

Kurt wrote:Unlike Santos, Blumthal was exposed by the NY Time while running.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyre ... nthal.html

Santos was exposed by an Alternative Weekly on Long Island while running and everyone ignored it. Even the Democrats who felt they "needed more money" to investigate Santos properly didn't say anything.

Blumthal appears to have used the Vietnam lie quite often. But he still went to Harvard, Graduated, worked with Moynihan and Nixon with various resume building "Urban" stuff. His last use of Vietnam was to shame Democrats into accepting the Iraq War in 2003 by claiming maltreatment when "he returned from Vietnam" so at the time he was useful to both parties who both wanted that war to proceed.

Other political liars about war are Ronald Reagan. Who claimed that when he served in WWII he just wanted to go home and make love to his wife. Which he could have done at any time since he served in the Army's Propaganda / Information Film divisions in Los Angeles where he lived with his wife the whole time. But he got elected Governor and President with that lie, but everything else except the War shit was pretty much true.

Bush II served in The Texas and Alabama National Guard as a Pilot during Vietnam. Bush II never claimed to be IN Vietnam but he did claim to be a skilled pilot who served honorably.

Then fake documents started to appear that would have been forged in the 1990s written in praise of his performance. The DoD then blocked access to his service records which woudl have shown he was a shitty pilot who was AWOL. Bush II was odd because Conservative Mil Bloggers from the Free Republic exposed the forged documents and the "Liberal" press found out he was AWOL and probably coked out of his head. But thanks to a unified Government, Republican and Democrat effort the only major media that exposed this, CBS News, lost their anchor Dan Rather over it.

So we got the rot. We've had it for a long time (not to mention "Tailgunner Joe" McCarthy). Shit, we even had people calling for John Kerry to be arrested for Treason for being anti-Vietnam war (Not anti-Iraq War) AND serving in combat in Vietnam.

That is probably why Santos will never be expelled by anyone but voters. Both parties have too much riding on the lies. If Santos had not lied about literally everything while stealing shit from people he would have been ingnored like Blumthal and Reagan. GWB is unique in that he had bipartisan protection for his lies while running against an actual war hero.

So fair, yah pretty much, but none of us will ever get to change what is actually "fair" or not.

POS, yep. But the big difference is his lies had bipartisan support and he used the rest of his accomplishments to pad the Vietnam lie. He really did all the other stuff he did. Shit, 5 deferments? That's Donald Trump and Bill Clinton smart in getting out of a stupid war.
Santos literally has nothing but lies. Those lies are only useful to one party



I don't blame Blumthal for using deferments, nor do I look down on him being a reservist. He served honorably, and should have left it at that. It's the not so subtle associating himself as a Vietnam vet that is wrong.

Fuck..the only reason I liked Trump was because he got his deferments, was one of the few (iirc) major players to have the balls to say Iraq was bullshit, and didn't get us into another war during his term.

Get all the deferments you want. Shit, I encourage it. But then don't turn around years later and send American kids off to die for something you didn't want to do.

And yeah..don't get me started on Reagan, baby Bush, etc..etc...

For fairness, I'm glad Biden, or at least whomever had their hands up his ass that day, got us out of Afghanistan. I don't give a shit how sloppy it was, it needed to happen.

We'll see if he keeps us out of Ukraine though. Which isn't looking so good.
Alphabet
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:48 am

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:38 pm

Alphabet wrote:Fuck..the only reason I liked Trump was because he got his deferments, was one of the few (iirc) major players to have the balls to say Iraq was bullshit, and didn't get us into another war during his term.



Clinton too. Now all I want is for someone to say "Hell yah I got a deferment!"

The problem with Clinton and Cheney is they got them and then tried to downplay them. Imagine being 20 years old and slogging through the jungle of a place where you are an invader and having people try to kill you vs. being 20 years old and fucking x number of women while hoping to get a Pre-Law degree with a 3.0 or better.

Or get in the National Guard, do paper pushing work and then fuck college students rather than die in a Malarial swamp.

I would feel damn good about that. I would feel damn proud about being able to get any of those options over the shit one.

One thing that would help would be for our political culture to stop fetishizing war and the Military. We got to see those that serve as worthy professions and hell, give them tons of bennies too (the combat people should be able to do full pension retirement after combat or 4 years whatever comes first). When we fetishize anything we tend to diminish it's real value.
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby vagabond » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:48 am

Kurt wrote:One thing that would help would be for our political culture to stop fetishizing war and the Military. We got to see those that serve as worthy professions and hell, give them tons of bennies too (the combat people should be able to do full pension retirement after combat or 4 years whatever comes first). When we fetishize anything we tend to diminish it's real value.


One argument, usually by people that have been in service, is that people that have a military background should aspire to a high office because they would better know when or when not to send in troops as they know what sacrifice that entails. We've definitely seen both good actors and bad ones get into politics lately. It's one of those checkboxes that gets you an automatic pass by voters who don't look beneath the service. Married? Veteran (even if not combat)? Religion of some sort? Boom, you're good to go.

I need to find the book that discussed this to give you a proper reference, and I doubt it's an original idea, but basically the thought was that we swung hard into yellow-ribbon wearing unquestioning "thank you for your service" stuff due to how we perceive how soldiers returning home from Vietnam were treated by the public. Within that is that these are volunteers vs conscripts so it's something out of the norm and special.

As to vet bennies and support, I have a feeling that extra tens of billions unasked for added on to the defense authorization bill is going to some random ass contractors vs veterans. Maybe if the DoD could ever pass an audit we could actually align the money they're given with beneficial programs. You know, like how Republicans expect other programs to be fiscally responsible yet never hold this one to account.
"If you were born near someplace called "The Erg of ____" you lost the lottery." - Kurt the Wise

"If you're stupid, the whole world is a dangerous place." - friendlyskies
User avatar
vagabond
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5342
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: LA

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby snaark » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:11 pm

This guy didn't waste time getting Clinton-ish with his staff.

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/05/george-santos-sexual-harassment-accusation-derek-myers
User avatar
snaark
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:43 am
Location: Germany

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:44 pm

snaark wrote:This guy didn't waste time getting Clinton-ish with his staff.

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/05/george-santos-sexual-harassment-accusation-derek-myers


The only thing that will get the Republicans off their "Feature, not a bug" when it comes to lies is if Santos invents a story about Congressmen and a gay Cocaine orgy.

Right now he can say the things the rest of them won't. He will play the heavy and get crazy conversations going. He is useful like this. As a boring Brazilian immigrant he is nothing, but as George Santos / Devolder / Anthony ....stealer of clothes, inventer of everything he is going to be used by them until 2024.
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Thu May 11, 2023 2:31 am

Arrested and charged with crimes and pleaded not guilty.
Apparently the investigation went pretty fast cuz Santos wiuld either steal shit directly and then later he had an LLC stealing and one laundering.
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:15 pm

I'm pretty sure Santos is an active danger to himself and others.

A while back he showed up at "Freedom Corner" in DC where "supporters of J6 Political Prisoners" get shit-faced drunk, poop in a graveyard, an scream at people and sometimes just drop dead (A guy named Screaming Steve died)

Anyway, when Santos showed up he was printing. Just cuz you are a congressman does mean you can C&C.

Then the baby thing. He wasnt holding that baby like one should hold a baby. Just fucking weird.

Anyway, before the cuffs go on and he is lead away to wherever I think he is gonna shoot it out with whomever is unarmed enough to be a target.
Hope I am wrong.
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby seektravelinfo » Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:02 pm

He shows how easily insane grifters can get elected.
User avatar
seektravelinfo
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 6183
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:18 am
Location: clevelandia

Re: That Santos guy...Or Devolder Guy. Whomever he is

Postby Kurt » Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:23 pm

seektravelinfo wrote:He shows how easily insane grifters can get elected.

These days. In the Good ol Days lies had to backed up with other credentials like Harvard or coming from a Political family.
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 21983
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Previous

Return to Black Flag Cafe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests