Universal Healthcare

[ROB]

Let's fight.

[Kurt]

Let's fight.

But remember: The US has a more complicated system that made it so it was more difficult to have universal health care.

That complexity was that we had racially segregated medical care in most states and segregated blood supply in all states until the 1970s.
https://www.universitybloodinitiative.o ... egregation.

There was even one guy named Dr. Lown who swapped race information on blood donations and lost his medical license. Universal Medical Care for all while we still had segregated lunch counters and more and less official lynching than we have today? No friggen way.

The US is the Exceptional Nation and our exceptional past of Jim Crow allows us a pass for not being able to get our shit together for Universal Health care.

[snaark]

Where exactly in the world do you get decent universal health care?

Australia provides very basic universal health care, but you wouldn't want to rely on it if you were really sick. Good health care costs big money.

Germany's "free" universal health care costs 15.5% of your salary and still only provides basic care. Seeing a specialist involves months of waiting, if you're lucky to find one who will see you.

The NHS in the UK is by all accounts close to failing.

So yeah, America's system is stupid, but they're all pretty shit.

[Kurt]

Where exactly in the world do you get decent universal health care?

Australia provides very basic universal health care, but you wouldn't want to rely on it if you were really sick. Good health care costs big money.

Germany's "free" universal health care costs 15.5% of your salary and still only provides basic care. Seeing a specialist involves months of waiting, if you're lucky to find one who will see you.

The NHS in the UK is by all accounts close to failing.

So yeah, America's system is stupid, but they're all pretty shit.

Will getting an ambulance called for you cause you to go bankrupt in Germany?

They all may be shit but some are more manure-pitty than others.

[jackwalters]

I will relate this to the the above, as was posted years ago.

I was a soldier and at 500USD walked till my back and feet bled bad enough the bllood would soak to my ankes on my socks: US Infantry and Paratrooper. No problem. Proud of it. Kind, generous, and if you try to hurt innocent people, particullary Americans or our 5 Eye cousins. laugh and cant wait to hurt you.

MEDICS, like (this might piss them off, but lisen) are incredible and go thru much worse than us Infantry (which is so far passed Uni Student requirements, its laughable. Add morales, balls etc., and dont even speak to me about College and I was always on the Deans List and Outstanding Student of my Division and view Academia as mostly pieces of shit, no load carrying fucks).

The VA in the US (military hospital) is 50/50, but that 50 on the negative side carries hard on a soldier (only about 10% do trigger time. The rest, STEAL VALOR and claim PTSD and other fake conditions) who again, at least in my case, (retired in 2008) started combat in 83 and it never stopped.

Boo Hoo. My Vietnam Vet leaders lost almsot 60,000 and were spat upon when they came "home.!

Dont ever speak to me about the glory of National Health Care.

[snaark]

Will getting an ambulance called for you cause you to go bankrupt in Germany?

I think we've had this conversation before. No, calling an ambulance in Germany will not cause you to go bankrupt. I've done it and it didn't cost me anything. My neighbour, an alcoholic in a wheelchair, seems to do it about once a week. I think he uses them as taxis. I'm not saying the US system isn't terrible - clearly it is - just that what Americans imagine to be universal health care (i.e., good quality and available to everyone) doesn't actually exist anyway that I know of. If you call an ambulance in some countries with universal health care it might not cost you anything, but it also might not show up until you're dead.

[Kurt]

Will getting an ambulance called for you cause you to go bankrupt in Germany?

I think we've had this conversation before. No, calling an ambulance in Germany will not cause you to go bankrupt. I've done it and it didn't cost me anything. My neighbour, an alcoholic in a wheelchair, seems to do it about once a week. I think he uses them as taxis. I'm not saying the US system isn't terrible - clearly it is - just that what Americans imagine to be universal health care (i.e., good quality and available to everyone) doesn't actually exist anyway that I know of. If you call an ambulance in some countries with universal health care it might not cost you anything, but it also might not show up until you're dead.

Yep, we probably do have a idealized view of what we do not have.

When I traveled around Eastern Europe I was told that living in America was easy, Everyone has a job and that job is easy. We hail taxis to go everywhere and they wish Bulgaria / Serbia / Romania was as easy as living in the US.

The thing is the US was leaps and bounds better than those places (then) but they had a dim grasp of what life was really like here.

I am probably like that with healthcare. I know it is better there but I am not capable yet of seeing the flaws you folks see.

[jackwalters]

In the US, we have (at the Federal Level and then add State Level, like you morons will never understand)

MEDECAID AND MEDICARE

In short words, for you idiots, you can not be turned away from a hospital in the US and you are guaranteed health care (the best in the world) but with no private insurance (and our R/D drives the world who just steals it from us as in US) you cant choose where. But you will get it. Chimps who say we dont have it and add a million other State and Federal programs. Idiots

Arrogant EuroPenises love to shit on the US while hiding behind out back while they have ZERO knowledge of what they speak.

It is best to think of MY country as the EU wants to be (If you havent got it, I despise the EU), we are 50 and more countries and do incredible feats for our people and a very undeserving world and start that with the EuroPenises

[Kurt]

In the US, we have (at the Federal Level and then add State Level, like you morons will never understand)

MEDECAID AND MEDICARE

In short words, for you idiots, you can not be turned away from a hospital in the US and you are guaranteed health care (the best in the world) but with no private insurance (and our R/D drives the world who just steals it from us as in US) you cant choose where. But you will get it. Chimps who say we dont have it and add a million other State and Federal programs. Idiots

Arrogant EuroPenises love to shit on the US while hiding behind out back while they have ZERO knowledge of what they speak.

It is best to think of MY country as the EU wants to be (If you havent got it, I despise the EU), we are 50 and more countries and do incredible feats for our people and a very undeserving world and start that with the EuroPenises

And we also have County level health care.

That means if I skip out on my med bill the county picks it up. Its been that way since counties ran orphanages and Workhouses.

But that way sucks ass.

Here is how my cousins started a business in Norway as Salmon farming Consultants:

Step 1. Declare that you are now Salmon Farming Consultants.
Step 2. Hire Staff.
Step 3. Advertise Services.
Step 4. Profit.

No business forms. No Bonded whatever. No insurance. No shop around for health care plan.

They can participate in a Government program that guarantees employees get paid even when they are short of payroll cash but they themselves, are liable to pay the government back.

My cousins kids did the same thing except they turned the house my grandma was born in 121 years ago into a Chocolate and coffee shop. But they have to have government inspections for the kitchen and hand washing signs for employees.

The lack of having to find insurance for employees makes creating a business really easy and pretty much anyone can do it, not just those with Capital.

As far as turning people away, no it cannot be done here legally. But they do it anyway. They can refuse treatment and try to convince them to sign discharge papers. ..and they actually do this too.

It is easier and less expensive to put medical insurance companies out of business than it is to perpetuate this system of money taking middlemen.

[Darcy]

Canada's system is far from perfect. I'm on a waiting list for 4 years trying to get a family doctor, since I hadn't seen the last one in three years I got taking out of his system. Emergency wards are nuts. Since it's free, lint in your belly button is a viable trip to the emerg. My wife had a a legit vertigo attack, couldn't even walk, throwing up constantly (got it sorted by a specialist eventually, crystals in the inner ear) and we waited for 12 hours in emerg to see a doc. My pal broke three ribs, his arm, collarbone and most of the bones in his hand in a mountain biking crash (it was a thing of beauty to watch) and he was about 5 hours seeing anyone, I know I'm spoiled rotten but most countries throw some money at it and you're front of the line getting top notch care with no wait. Most contracts I'm on include the best no-cost-spared coverage, and I'd rather be seriously sick in some third world countries than Canada.

[ROB]

Shit, a witch doctor in Vanuatu can treat a broken arm. I am talking about life-extending health care.

Look at outcomes. (And the possible cost of them as a distant secondary concern).

That means life expectancy after significant health events. It could potentially incorporate avoidance of those events as well.

Everything else is anecdotal bullshit.

[Alphabet]

Well, you know I'm either a Communist or a Nazi for saying this, take your pick...But if the US didn't have to prop up/defend Israel, Ukraine, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc..etc..etc..and like spent our fucking tax dollars on like our own fucking country, Healthcare probably wouldn't be an issue. Or infrastructure. Or kids getting an education without going broke. Or whatever.

But then the Rob's and the other assorted Karen's who bitch about the US being the police of the world would bitch and cry about the US not policing the world....

[ROB]

Rent. Free.

[south_sea_bubble]

It's interesting to consider the implications for the US military and the world if the US were to have universal healthcare. In 2018, one think tank conservatively put the cost at $32.6 trillion over 10 years. Adjusting for inflation that is $40.75 trillion in today's purchasing power. The huge cost would cut into military spending which would likely decline to 2% of GDP (similar to UK and French military spending). At 2% of GDP, force levels would fall short of hegemony in the Middle East and Israel would no longer be able to count on the US military if it were attacked from six different directions. Israel would probably have to accommodate the rest of the Middle East including statehood for the Palestinians.

[ROB]

It's interesting to consider the implications for the US military and the world if the US were to have universal healthcare. In 2018, one think tank conservatively put the cost at $32.6 trillion over 10 years. Adjusting for inflation that is $40.75 trillion in today's purchasing power. The huge cost would cut into military spending which would likely decline to 2% of GDP (similar to UK and French military spending). At 2% of GDP, force levels would fall short of hegemony in the Middle East and Israel would no longer be able to count on the US military if it were attacked from six different directions. Israel would probably have to accommodate the rest of the Middle East including statehood for the Palestinians.

I think we are all dumber for having read this.