Turkey for the EU?

[lightstalker]

The Times

October 03, 2005


Will Croatia get membership before Turkey?..

Turkey left out in cold as Austria digs in heels over EU entry talks
By Anthony Browne, Brussels Correspondent

TURKEY’S 40-year campaign to join the European Union is on the brink of collapse after emergency talks between EU foreign ministers broke up without agreement just hours before entry negotiations were due to start.

Amid frenetic diplomacy and warnings of dire consequences if the EU rejected Turkey, Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, chaired fraught negotiations through the night in an attempt to stop Austria from torpedoing the membership talks.

Failure to secure the start of Turkey’s entry into the Union will be humiliating for Tony Blair, who made it one of the priorities of his six-month presidency of the EU.

Initial optimism gave way to gloom as the meeting of European foreign ministers ground on through a series of informal and formal meetings, with diplomats reporting no progress.

A dinner of EU foreign ministers overran by two hours as EU countries put pressure on Austria to back down. By the early hours, tempers were flaring and British diplomats stormed around the EU complex with long faces.

The talks are due to start again this morning, but hopes of securing a deal were fading last night. A clearly exhausted Mr Straw said: “We have been unable to reach agreement. It’s a frustrating situation, but I hope and pray we may be able to reach agreement. We have a situation where 24 have decided to move forward and one has not. It is not the first time that has happened, and I am sure it will not be the last.”

A review of Croatia’s progress towards starting membership talks — an issue close to Austria’s heart — due to be held today has been postponed by Britain, as holder of the EU presidency, until the mandate for Turkey is resolved.

Membership talks with Turkey, which were agreed in principle last December, had been due to start at a special ceremony this afternoon, beginning a process that is expected to take ten years.

Austria has demanded that Turkey be offered a “privileged partnership” as an alternative to full membership, an offer that Turkey has made clear is unacceptable. Although Austria stands alone on the issue, it has the power of veto.

Previously agreed points were being called into question as Turkey started raising objections to a demand that it must stop vetoing Cyprus’s membership of Nato.

In a final attempt to change Austria’s mind, Mr Blair telephoned Wolfgang Schüssel, the Austrian Chancellor, and Mr Straw held repeated meetings with Ursula Plassnik, the Austrian Foreign Minister, to warn her of serious consequences if the EU rejected the Muslim country. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Prime Minister of Turkey, also phoned Herr Schüssel to try to reach a deal.

Before the talks, Mr Straw gave warning about the impact it would have on relations between Islam and the West if Austria wielded its veto: “This is a crucial meeting for the future of the European Union. We’re concerned about a so-called clash of civilisations. We are concerned about this theological-political divide, which could open up even further the boundary between so-called Christian-heritage states and those of Islamic heritage. The heavy responsibility rests on all member states.”

Mr Erdogan told Turkish television: “Either the EU will decide to become a world force and a world player, which would show its political maturity, or it will limit itself to a Christian club.”

Opponents of Turkish membership claim that the country is too big, too poor and too culturally different to join the EU. With the EU in crisis over the rejection of its constitution by French and Dutch voters, they claim that it is not capable of absorbing the Muslim country.

Opinion polls show that the majority of EU citizens are opposed to Turkey’s membership, with opposition particularly high in Austria, France, Germany and the Netherlands.

[el3so]

Amid frenetic diplomacy and warnings of dire consequences if the EU rejected Turkey, Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, chaired fraught negotiations through the night in an attempt to stop Austria from torpedoing the membership talks.

In a final attempt to change Austria’s mind, Mr Blair telephoned Wolfgang Schüssel, the Austrian Chancellor, and Mr Straw held repeated meetings with Ursula Plassnik, the Austrian Foreign Minister, to warn her of serious consequences if the EU rejected the Muslim country. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Prime Minister of Turkey, also phoned Herr Schüssel to try to reach a deal.

Before the talks, Mr Straw gave warning about the impact it would have on relations between Islam and the West if Austria wielded its veto: “This is a crucial meeting for the future of the European Union. We’re concerned about a so-called clash of civilisations. We are concerned about this theological-political divide, which could open up even further the boundary between so-called Christian-heritage states and those of Islamic heritage. The heavy responsibility rests on all member states.”

Cheecky Brit batards!
Coercion isn't the most effective political strategy, esp if the coercer is already seen by many as a fringe member.
Other big pusher for Turkey membership is the USA. Obviously they only care for the properity and longterm viabilty of the EU...

What would be the "serious consequences" anyhow? Good luck to anyone planning to bring democracy to Austria, I'll bet those mountain ranges will look even more spectacular if they'd be coloured crimson red...

As for today's bogeyman, "international terrorism" can and is already being tackled by joint police and intel efforts. UK should deal with their own domestic dirty dishes, doubt militant Muslims 'll refrain from blowing up Big Ben just because Turkey joins the EU anyhow. And even if it would work out that way, how would this be different than the Spanish "appeasing" the terrorists by bailing out of Iraq?

As for the whole "Islam vs Christianity" BS, the EU is foremost an economic body. Best to leave out religion and other "soft" values and goals IMO.
Mention of God and religion were already one of the main cosmetic obstacles for the EU constitution. The real issues are of course a lot more problematic.

Then there's the Cyprus thingie which is just a temporary thing to give the papers something to write about, kinda like human rights, death penalty, persecution of the Kurds and the re-examinatin of the Armenian genocide were in the past.

Opponents of Turkish membership claim that the country is too big, too poor and too culturally different to join the EU. With the EU in crisis over the rejection of its constitution by French and Dutch voters, they claim that it is not capable of absorbing the Muslim country.

Opinion polls show that the majority of EU citizens are opposed to Turkey’s membership, with opposition particularly high in Austria, France, Germany and the Netherlands.

Romania will join in 2006. They were still showing Ceacescu wooden replicas of vegetables when Turkey was already "set to join the EU any minute now" (although it was still called the EC back in those days)

We already have all the non-arable land and unemployable analfabetics we need, so no thanks. Won't happen.

Should be interesting to see what Turkey 'll do once the Coalition of the Willing packs up their gear and troops (won't take longer than 5 years IMO) and leaves Iraq.

[Arctic]

I guess the Austrians are still kinda sore over the whole Siege of Vienna thingy.

[Qwazy Wabbit]

Well said el3so. I have no idea what the British government is talking about but, yet again, it is wildly out of step with British public opinion. There is absolutely no demand or interest for Turkish membership of the EU and I fail to see how we could possibly benefit from them joining. I'm heartily sick of, every time they mention Turkey joining the EU, they show footage of people drinking coffee in some street cafe in Istanbul. Why don't they head off to Anatolia and give us a real view of what Turkey is like. Of course Croatia will join before Turkey!

The Blair government again is hoping that people have short memories and forgets when the supposed love affair between Britain and Turkey started. It was the week after President Bush said Turkey should be allowed to join the EU. Of course he was trying to get permission to invade Iraq from Turkish territory at the time. As people simply laughed at the idea of a US President telling the EU who their members should be, his faithful lapdog suddenly sprung into action. How embarassing.

I'm all for EU expansion and reform. I certainly don't want to contribute to some job creation scheme for beaurocrats and French farmers but at the same time I'm damned if I'm going to pay to drag 70 million peasants in the Middle East into the 21st century. Most of them haven't even reached the 20th century yet.

[Arctic]

Qwazy wrote:

I'm damned if I'm going to pay to drag 70 million peasants in the Middle East into the 21st century. Most of them haven't even reached the 20th century yet.

As a Middle Eastern peasant, I demand that you do your job and drag me into the 21st century.

Please, white people!! Drag me into the 21st century!!!

[el3so]

I guess the Austrians are still kinda sore over the whole Siege of Vienna thingy.

Touché...

[Qwazy Wabbit]

As a Middle Eastern peasant, I demand that you do your job and drag me into the 21st century.

Ah well this is the point Arctic. Get involved with Turkey and you start getting involved with Egypt, not to metion Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Yemen etc. etc. What possible benefit (beyond the cafes of Istanbul) could there be for a group of wealthy, liberal democracies in Europe possibly have by getting themselves involved with such a group of countries.

Absorbing a relatively poor part of Europe into the EU costs a staggering amount of money. Ask the West Germans. There has to be something in it for the EU beyond Jack Straw's assertion that it might be less likely that we'll get blown up by terrorists.

[ROB]

I fail to see how we could possibly benefit from them joining.

International policy for the last 2k yeard can be summed up by trying to sow discord on the continent.

An enlarged EU will increase the possibilities for discord within it.

[el3so]

Absorbing a relatively poor part of Europe into the EU costs a staggering amount of money. Ask the West Germans.

Maintaining the senseless system of agicultural subsidies costs even more.
Read about 75% of the budget goes towards paying folks not to work their land. Marvellous...

Democracy, international pressure and other niceties not withstanding, if the net payers opt out, there'll be little Union left. Guess who those net payers are?

[Renard]

Guess who those net payers are?

Just guessing here, but is it Portugal and Greece?

[Qwazy Wabbit]

Nothing would screw up the EU faster than letting Turkey join. No wonder the US is all in favour of it. As was observed at the time, Bush saying that Turkey should be allowed to join the EU is like the European Parliament declaring Mexico part of the United States. Perhaps he should concern himself with running his own country. It's the one on the left hand side of the Atlantic.

The EU is certainly in need of reform. Only a Greek goat farmer would disagree. However I cannot see (and have not heard) a single arguement as to why Turkey would add anything to the EU. The only arguement the British government has put forward is some fatuous tosh about it being Turkey's 'destiny' and somehow it will improve our security (like the British government have a great track record of doing that!).

The Turkish dream of being European is as ridiculous as the French notion that Algeria was somehow part of metropolitan France. That all ended in tears. We hardly need to repeat it.

[Arctic]

Qwazy wrote:

It's the one on the left hand side of the Atlantic.

Tsk tsk, Qwazy. You should have clarified that that's the case if you're facing north, or "up."

[Qwazy Wabbit]

True. I have a great map from New Zealand which shows the world up-side-down so to speak. It give the impression that Mauritius is the centre of the planet.

Either way, official US pronouncements on EU membership are hardly going to strengthen support for Turkey joining and this sudden British support for Turkey joining is nothing short of bizarre.

I understand the British geopolitical desire to find a partner to counteract the Germany-France bloc. Spain and Poland are too small, Italy too.....actually I'm not sure what the objection to Italy is but we've never been allies with them before and I can't really see it happening. But Turkey!?! Not a chance.

[el3so]

Spain and Poland are too small, Italy too...

much of a joke? ;-)

[Buzzsaw]

Perhaps he should concern himself with running his own country. It's the one on the left hand side of the Atlantic.

I couldn't help but laugh at this remark. Euros getting butt-hurt because of unsolicited comments from the better side of the pond? Come on.