The United States of Whatever

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Is America a police state?

Yes
9
30%
No
21
70%
 
Total votes : 30

I vote no

Postby Vincent » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:35 am

Having been in a police state, I don't think the US comes close. Just a few examples:

1. Drive from New York to California. How many roadblocks do you encounter where you are stopped, asked for identification and questioned about your activities?

2. Walk into a voting booth and see the choice of candidates for public office. Or better yet, go to the local board of elections and ask how to become a candidate for public office. Were you visited by the police or other authorities that night?

3. Write a letter to your local newspaper or call in to the talk radio show that broadcasts in your area and talk about what a lousy job GWB is doing and that you are of teh opinion that he is a war criminal and that losing an election is not enough and he should be tried at the Hague for war crimes. Again, wait by the door to see if the authorities come.

These are the things that happen in police states. If you did any of the above mentioned things, not only would you not be visited by the authorities, I would be surprised if anyone even noticed.

With that said, I agree with RYP that the gradual erosion of civil liberties is reaching an alarming level. But in observing that, one has to recognize the amount of freedome we start with and stand to lose.
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Postby Toasty McGrath » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:43 am

I can think of one roadblock between Phoenix and LA, but they only stop and question you if you look latino.
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Postby RYP » Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:46 am

1. Try flying from New York to California..Or better yet just try to pick up someone at the airport. In LA we have security checks, and searches

2. Try to vote for someone that doesnt have millions of dollars. Then look at where your voter registration info ends up.

3. Say that you want to assassinate the president on a radio show and see what happens.

The authorities don't have to visit you. They monitor your emails (predator) they listen to your phone calls and they have unlimited access to personal, computer, medical, financial, educational, transaction, and other records..

Americans believe that the business of government is staying out of their business. That we are able to conduct ourselves in a legal and socially responsible manner without direction or interference from the bureaucrats we hire to fix potholes and defend our borders.

yes you can drive from NY to California but they can get your credit card records and tell you where you stayed, when you drove through and there are enough video cameras and monitoring devices to reconstruct your entire life

Right now everyone is suspect.
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plaigerism

Postby kilroy » Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:17 pm

hey, sri lanky, stop stealing titles from liam lynch.

no, we are not a police state.
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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Postby Sir Pancreas » Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:43 pm

I vote "No".The US is by no means a police state, BUT we could be turning into something almost as bad.
A country where an 11-year-old girl can't walk two blocks without being murdered by the neighborhood psychopath (Carle Brucia, murdered in Florida January 2003), where four people are shot to death in one month in a city of 135,000 (Hartford, CT, January 2004), where schools need armed guards, where over a thousand people are murdered every month... I don't care what anybody says. That is not a free country.
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Postby Texas Carnie Roadshow » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:43 pm

Sir Pancreas wrote: That is not a free country.


no, it's still a free country, there's just enough people who do stupid things that create the need for security measures.
When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? To surrender dreams - -this may be madness; to seek treasure where there is only trash. Too much sanity may be madness! But maddest of all - -to see life as it is and not as it should be.
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Postby NIJ » Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:48 pm

Since when does free mean safe?
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Postby jumpseater » Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:16 am

who needs police to do the dirty work anyway?

the US has more than 30 minisats (spy satelites) in orbit domestically keeping vigilant eyes and ears on much of what we all say and do...

just go to Google and type "Echelon" into the search field and read all about the new face of Big Brother...very creepy indeed!

with acres of underground mainframes filtering all domestic and international broadband communications, monitoring for flag words (ie: jihad, hijack, bomb in any language, tense or form, kill, any alpha numeric sequence non touch tone, etc etc ad nausea)...

not only are we being watched by the ultimate voyeurs 24/7...we are also wired for sound at 320Kbps and backed-up to disc for listening pleasure.

p.s. i am a former communications analyst in the military and used to run what we called "drops" on governement inter-communications from time to time just for fun...you'd be very suprised to find out what goes on with your tax dollars peeps!

btw...hi everybody...i'm new on this forum...i look forward to what appears to be some very interesting discussion and debate...cheers!
Whaddya mean the whole kit-and-kaboodle?
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idunnoboutthat

Postby kilroy » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:53 am

echelon is a wet dream (or nightmare) for big brother conspiracy theorists. there's just too much info out there to keep tabs on it all.

with 30 satelites you can only watch 30 things at a time, right? and it would take a hell of a lot of people and resources (definitely not an unnoticeable, unnacounted for amount) to process all the stuff that goes flying around the net.

also, the gov't is notoriously terrible with information technology. ten year old kids can hack the shit out of their sites (it's been done before, and it'll be done again). not exactly the type of security and proficiency you'd expect from such a sophisticated bunch of technocrats who can track our every move.
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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Re: idunnoboutthat

Postby el3so » Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:18 pm

kilroy wrote:echelon is a wet dream (or nightmare) for big brother conspiracy theorists.

also, the gov't is notoriously terrible with information technology. ten year old kids can hack the shit out of their sites (it's been done before, and it'll be done again). not exactly the type of security and proficiency you'd expect from such a sophisticated bunch of technocrats who can track our every move.
IMHO that's just the difference between amateurs and professionals / civil servants.

First off, I dare to say you only hear people not living in police states complaining about them living in a police state.

I worked for a local government for a short while some time ago (nothing special) and it is indeed amazing how much data there is and how relatively easy it is to obtain quite personal information. Bank, hospital history and what not... Of course I only used it to help people, it wasn't official and heck, they can't prove anything ;-)

The biggest problem in my view is that most BigBrother-esque systems are only able to suss out wrongdoings of your average semi-honest citizen.
Taking echelon for example, what kind of professional terrorist would actually use the terms they supposedly use to filter?
Sure, it's only the Sun so not a reliable source but if this were true, I wouldn't be amazed http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/ ... lance.html

Further on, what with the various agencies, administrations and services all responsible for a small part of the data AND with the known and I guess inherent problem of data-sharing between agencies and services, BigBrother is hardly watching us.
she isn't a man you need to shut your fucking mouth little pussy bitch - random Youtube comment
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Postby Romeo247 » Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:29 pm

****MESSAGE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY****

We interrupt this message with a special bulletin:

America is now under martial law.

All constitutional rights have been suspended. (patroit act)

Stay in your homes. (as required by "red" terror alerts)

Do not attempt to contact love ones, insurance agents or attorneys. (keep the phonelines open for emergancy personel)

-Shut up!.-

Do not attempt to think or depression may occure. (Take your Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, )

-Stay in your homes.- (watch more reality tv! if its not on tv, its not real!)

Curfew is at 7 PM sharp after work.

Anyone caught outside of the gates of their subdivision sectors after curfew will be shot!!!!.

Remain calm... Do not panic. (Take your Xanix, Valium, Klonopin)

Your neighborhood watch officer will be by to collect urine examples in
the morning.

Anyone caught intefering with the collection of urine samples will be
shot!!!!

-Stay in your homes, remain calm.-

The number one enemy of progress is question!!!!.

National security is more important than individual will.

All Sports broadcasts will proceed as normal. (first shows to air after 9/11)

No more than two people may gather anywhere without permission. (protesters banned from G-8 summit)

Use only the drugs perscribed by your boss or supervisor. (Follow in Rush Limbaughs footsteps he is your patrotic example)

Shut up, be happy.

Obey all orders without question. (pork is good, but torture is better)

All the comforts you demanded are now mandatory.

Be happy.

At last everything is done for you.

****END MESSAGE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY****
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Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:52 pm

You can render your corrupt government powerless when democracy takes to the streets. Wakey wakey yanks.
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Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:28 pm

We are lost without the yanks? Nah...America is the home of the friendly fascists.

America = Fascism with a friendly face. : ) Who needs that shit?
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Postby Texas Carnie Roadshow » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:35 pm

Sri, if you actually believe what you're saying, you're an ass.
Welcome to the real world. Stereotypes don't work here.
Let me guess.
All Americans are a bunch of greedy, hateful people who love war more than their own mothers, right?
No Americans ever speak out against the corrupted government of evil, right?
So tell me, where did the war protesters come from?
Where did all the people who shout out for the blood of Bush come from?
Oh, right, America.
When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? To surrender dreams - -this may be madness; to seek treasure where there is only trash. Too much sanity may be madness! But maddest of all - -to see life as it is and not as it should be.
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Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:49 pm

Who voted for Bush? Brain-dead Americans....'nuff said.
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