The mastermind--Osama

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Did Osama successfully manipulate Bush?

Absolutely
7
39%
Possibly
4
22%
No
7
39%
 
Total votes : 18

The mastermind--Osama

Postby Sri Lanky » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:15 pm

Did he successfully manipulate the brain-dead Bush admin.?
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Postby Skirita » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:37 pm

How about a "Fuck you and your loaded questions" option?
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Postby Tumbling Snake » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:40 pm

Did he intentionally manipulate, NO. Is he and his kind benifitting from some of Bushs policies, YES. Any enemy would if they have half a brain. The only thing Osama intentionally did was plot and finance the murder of thousands of people. Why would anyone take pleasure in any success of this bastard Osama, deserved or otherwise?
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I don't think so

Postby Vincent » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:45 pm

I'd hate to admit this, but if you listen to the rhetoric from the Left, no one in the world wanted a war with Iraq more than GWB. If that's the case, couldn't it be argued that "brain-dead" George W. Bush manipulated Osama Bin Laden?

AFter all, once the towers came down, didn't it become very easy for GWB and his administration to essentially silence opposition to most of their Invade Iraq plans? Sure there was some dissent, but it was muted in the face of the very real threat of terrorism. And Osama made that possible, no?
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Postby Toasty McGrath » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:00 am

I don't think it was Osama who came up with the idea (most likely his second-in-command guy, bad time to forget his name), and I don't think it was planned from the start to grow to this scale. But it sure came together for the little Muj fighters in the end. What better way to gain support for a global jihad than to try and make the Great Satan attack small muslim countries? Putting everything together, who do you think is most likely to attack small muslim countries? If you guessed Far-right Neo-Con president George Dubya Bush, then you're probably right. Add that with a few (or alot of) slip ups, like calling the war a crusade, and Osama has all the support he needs. In hindsight, we all can see that Bush was looking for an excuse to turn Iraq into a bead of glass from the start. It's pretty obvious now why all of the pieces fell together, but I don't think anyone back in 2001 could have even guessed how things would turn out.
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Postby Jackson » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:16 am

yea, Usama got lucky for the most part. I mean he is one of the extremists with the most cash and a shitload of connections/capabilities... But remember, the 9/11 plan was first not taken seriously by him when khalid proposed it, until they decided to just go through w/ it.

Besides, someone in the high level security of u.s. LET IT happen. they caught other airline plots and hijackings... but they just happend to miss this one?
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Postby RYP » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:07 am

imagine if Bush had never mentioned osama's name and simply issued a warrant for his arrest and focused on more important things..
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Postby nick » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:04 am

RYP wrote:imagine if Bush had never mentioned osama's name and simply issued a warrant for his arrest and focused on more important things..


What are the more important things?
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Postby RYP » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:26 am

the health and security of US citizens.

more people have died in terrorist attacks as a result of Bush's dumb actions than if he would have just snuffed him and gone on with his business.
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Postby DawnC71 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:39 am

I gotta say Osama played George like a fiddle-dee-dummy....I mean the fact that we toss out an "oppressive regime" in Afghanistan, and then we turn our backs on these people who have an obvious true sense of loyalty....then we invade another country, Iraq, which rapidly consumes our resources as well as those of Iraq itself...Bush thought we could walk in, take Baghdad and everything would be hunky dory...only to find you have marched rapiudly into the enemy's heart...Meanwhile, over in Afghanistan the people are thinking, "See, fucked again...(i guess they can curse in ISlam...Aqil did it alot in his book)' and they are getting restless. Why should they trust anything democratic or even the concept of "freedom"?....We are failing to understand the culture of these people, Iraqi or Afghan..and it is not winning us friends in either area....Now the question should be, who is man enough to admit that the government as a whole, and on nearly every point, fucked up by going into Iraq...who will stand up and say, "you know what, we all fucked up....now we need to do our best to clean it up."...but it is a sticky balance right now. I am not sure if people are even paying enough attention to what is going on other than listening a few minutes a day to FOX news or CNN....which makes me wonder if anyone cares about this war as a whole much less about whether Binny lead Bush by the ring of his nose right into it. The people as a whole are subject only to mass media opinion. In turn, this often makes it difficult for people to think for themselves....
Didn't anybody's Pappa/Mamma try and teach them how to become friends, in spite of differences?? Oh and can anyone say CLUSTERFUCK?
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Postby Sri Lanky » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:05 pm

But invading Iraq was all done out of love. Bush and Rummy care deeply about the Iraqi people. That's why America invaded them.It was more important to show American love towards the Iraqis then to hunt down Osama. No one could ever doubt this. ahahahahahahaha
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Postby RYP » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:12 pm

My theory is that George is dim and his father used to run the agency. So Bush was predisposed to believe or not believe intelligence based on something other than common sense.

Also born agains tend to have faith in polarized concepts as opposed to using rational balanced views based on proof. So he would me more inclined to see a good vs evil scenario.

Finally Bush is surrounded by neocons who have one foot in industry and the other in the military. He would have seen war as a win/win/win scenario.

I still think he only focuses on the elements he chooses to. My advice would be to put the CINC on the ground for a week in each theater before making more dumb decisions.
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Toast is right

Postby Jefe » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:37 pm

UBL gets credit for what his 2IC plans who is from an Egyptian group which was the driving force behind AQ which was nothing more than a logistics-admin unit during the Afgan Soviet war.

As far as much behing more important than going after the figurehead of a gropu that has killed thousands of Americans, I find that comment about health care and more important things outragous and so far into left field as to be laughable if not for the seriousness of hte situtation.

(Its the economy stupid, wish Clinton had said that after 911 or the Africa bombings. His administration had been offered UBL on a silver platter several times but they didnt have the balls to take him as the French did with Carlos the Jackal).

Dont just remember 911. Remember, Khobar Towers, the AFB attack in Saudi, The embassies in Africa et. seq. as well as the future.

MANIPULATION:

AQ has clearly manipulated the US who has to a large extent played into an obvious plan.

911 was all saudis to drive a wedge between us and the Royal family. By doing that, he could isolate the Royals from their power base and make it easier to take them down as well as the ensured response by the US could be used to gain more recruits from our "heavy handed response" etc., i.e. propagandized analysis of what we did in turn.

That strategy was working well and our relations were very strained until AQ started attacking targets inside teh Kingdom to include muslims which broke the cycle and they effectively shot themselves in the foot.
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Postby Kurt » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:04 pm

I can´t think for OBL but part of me is betting that when we went into Iraq he thought it was a pleasant surprise.

The Neo-cons manipulated Bush and Isreal manipulated Bush.

The Saudi OBL connections to Bush that Moore adresses is nothing more than two oil families doing business and the OBL family is huge too.

I think if the Neocons have their way with Saudi Arabia as "the prize" of modifying the middle east, I think then OBL will have suceeded in duping everyone and winning while we were convinced we were defeating him.

Also the moment we think that any ME inteligence agency can´t play us at all, we will be played.
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Postby nick » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:42 pm

RYP wrote:the health and security of US citizens.

more people have died in terrorist attacks as a result of Bush's dumb actions than if he would have just snuffed him and gone on with his business.


But wouldn't you say that that is what his intentions were and are? The health and security of US citizens? Certainly, we are not safer now, and his ways of making us 'safer' have fucked us indefinetely. He has a fixed ideaolgy which, to me, is pretty archaic, it's black and white. Too simple, you're either with us or against us, complete bs. That is where the problem lies, in the administrations twisted ideology.
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