I got a BA in Anthropology and History. Oddly I have learned much more about Culture and history since I got out of College...and my BA didn´t teach me to "process" the information properly either nor provide a base for future learning.
It was pretty much bunk.
The Anthro was all super extreme Cultural Relativity stuff..this is why the best Anthro books are now being written by Non-Anthropologist..the Pros have learned themselves stupid.
History was OK, until you talked to the "experts" who applied Historical "theory" to current events and attempted to make predictions. This one old guy with a twitchy lip who was the "expert" on Modern Russia once chided me for claiming that Yeltsin was a politcal force and Russian Communism would collapse (the other eastern European communist countries, except Albania, had Collapsed by then so I figured the USSR would too)..He claimed that Gorbachevs reforms would make Communism stronger and more formidable than ever.
If I´d known then what I know now..I would not have gone to College.
Education level at the BFC
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by Prodigal Son » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:15 pm
Sigh...currently pursuing a PhD (Piled High and Deep) in Political Science (want fries with that?) at the University of Illinois. My goal is to do some research and teach at a nice small school somewhere -- don't want riches, fame, or power.
Anyway, higher education at the BA level for MOST in this country is a shell game -- basically a signaling mechanism to corporate America that you aren't a total moron and can likely peform low-level functions in the white-collar economy. There isn't a heavy emphasis on the sciences (or at least scientific thinking) or mathematics in most HSs in this country and so we produce a lot of business admin, humanities, social science folks, and lawyers. In graduate school I've learned just how shallow the US education system really is (or perhaps it was my own laziness as a student?).
Anyway, on the relationship between experience versus "book learning" I would have to say which you value more depends upon what you need. "Experience" is great for particular problems -- how to build a particular product, design a particular computer, or how to lead, say, a platoon in combat. "Book Learning" is in many ways needed for "big picture" analysis of problems that aren't so concrete and are far more abstract -- how legal systems work, or the likely effect an increase in defense spending may have on national security. Ideally the two types of knowledge complement each other -- which is why some of our best scholars in this country are the military men and women who have not only learned to command on the job but also have pursued an education that allows them to more easily take in and understand the "big picture."
Anyway, higher education at the BA level for MOST in this country is a shell game -- basically a signaling mechanism to corporate America that you aren't a total moron and can likely peform low-level functions in the white-collar economy. There isn't a heavy emphasis on the sciences (or at least scientific thinking) or mathematics in most HSs in this country and so we produce a lot of business admin, humanities, social science folks, and lawyers. In graduate school I've learned just how shallow the US education system really is (or perhaps it was my own laziness as a student?).
Anyway, on the relationship between experience versus "book learning" I would have to say which you value more depends upon what you need. "Experience" is great for particular problems -- how to build a particular product, design a particular computer, or how to lead, say, a platoon in combat. "Book Learning" is in many ways needed for "big picture" analysis of problems that aren't so concrete and are far more abstract -- how legal systems work, or the likely effect an increase in defense spending may have on national security. Ideally the two types of knowledge complement each other -- which is why some of our best scholars in this country are the military men and women who have not only learned to command on the job but also have pursued an education that allows them to more easily take in and understand the "big picture."
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by Buzzsaw » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:27 pm
Which, Prodigal, makes the perfect segway for the following point.
The United States education system is largely a scam. There are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of students spending tens of thousands of dollars on 4 year bachelor programs right now who have absolutely no business being in university at all. Many will graduate completely unmarketable and be forced to go on to higher degrees. Others will take jobs similar to what they could have go right out of high school.
For many, college is a colossal waste of time and money. And corporate and government America are to blame for colluding in the scam...they frequently demand BAs for jobs where it makes no difference.
I hire based on experience, personality and skillset. Screw the letters after the name. Totally overrated.
That being said, I have a BBA and an MBA. The first part was pretty useless. The second one I've been able to parlay pretty well.
The United States education system is largely a scam. There are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of students spending tens of thousands of dollars on 4 year bachelor programs right now who have absolutely no business being in university at all. Many will graduate completely unmarketable and be forced to go on to higher degrees. Others will take jobs similar to what they could have go right out of high school.
For many, college is a colossal waste of time and money. And corporate and government America are to blame for colluding in the scam...they frequently demand BAs for jobs where it makes no difference.
I hire based on experience, personality and skillset. Screw the letters after the name. Totally overrated.
That being said, I have a BBA and an MBA. The first part was pretty useless. The second one I've been able to parlay pretty well.
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by WillyBlues » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:38 pm
Buzzsaw wrote:That being said, I have a BBA and an MBA. The first part was pretty useless. The second one I've been able to parlay pretty well.
And isn't that the catch. In order to get the MBA you need the BA/BS. I thought college wasn't really all that worthless. I guess it depends where you go. I found that schools that are big on offering a curriculm philosphy based on expanding one's ability to reason is great. The other ideal school is one that offers specific skills, like a tech or eingineering school.
In the US most schools are middle of the road graduating alot of useless majors. I happen to be one of those people who wound up doing something completely different than my major course of study. I would't have been able to though if my thinking and reasoning skills hadn't been expanded.
Well, that and the LSD
"All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something that isn't even visible."
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by kilroy » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:46 pm
why do i get the feeling that most of the answers to these recent poll questions are being sold by some shady marketing corporation?
anyway, i just finished my first year at the university after i took a year off between high school and college.
what higher education is pretty much depends on who is taking part in it, but like buzz says, most people just dont belong, and most companies look at a degree as a given, almost like a high school degree was not too long ago. theres a few different archetypes of college students:
the people who go there to party - the hardcore ones usually end up dropping out and getting an apartment just off campus to continue partying it up until at least their early 30's. to quote a friend of a friend, "man i love living by a college. i get older, but the chicks stay the same age!"
the people who go their to get a degree - they believe the only way that they can get a 'good' job is to get a degree, so they major in something that somebody told them there is money in and do all the requisite work to make their gpa as high as they can to impress potential employers. all they're interested in is the piece of paper at the end of the trail. from what i see, most of these guys end up in jobs they hate, paying off college loans very slowly because there wasnt as much money in it as they were led to believe. or laid off because their jobs were outsourced to india.
and then there's the people who go to actually learn stuff - getting good grades come naturally because they are mastering the material. professors are good and well, but in the end just another resource to be used. there are lots of resources more readily available for use in college than i would otherwise have access to, so it makes things really easy when i actually feel like learning something.
of course, there is some overlap in the categories.
anyway, i just finished my first year at the university after i took a year off between high school and college.
what higher education is pretty much depends on who is taking part in it, but like buzz says, most people just dont belong, and most companies look at a degree as a given, almost like a high school degree was not too long ago. theres a few different archetypes of college students:
the people who go there to party - the hardcore ones usually end up dropping out and getting an apartment just off campus to continue partying it up until at least their early 30's. to quote a friend of a friend, "man i love living by a college. i get older, but the chicks stay the same age!"
the people who go their to get a degree - they believe the only way that they can get a 'good' job is to get a degree, so they major in something that somebody told them there is money in and do all the requisite work to make their gpa as high as they can to impress potential employers. all they're interested in is the piece of paper at the end of the trail. from what i see, most of these guys end up in jobs they hate, paying off college loans very slowly because there wasnt as much money in it as they were led to believe. or laid off because their jobs were outsourced to india.
and then there's the people who go to actually learn stuff - getting good grades come naturally because they are mastering the material. professors are good and well, but in the end just another resource to be used. there are lots of resources more readily available for use in college than i would otherwise have access to, so it makes things really easy when i actually feel like learning something.
of course, there is some overlap in the categories.
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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by Land Rover » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:05 pm
Buzzsaw wrote:Many will graduate completely unmarketable and be forced to go on to higher degrees. Others will take jobs similar to what they could have go right out of high school.I hire based on experience, personality and skillset. Screw the letters after the name. Totally overrated.
umm..that would be me. I have two degrees and might start working at a lingerie shop part time..
Buzz, can I send you my resume?
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by Tumbling Snake » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:07 pm
I quit school in the tenth grade, as hockey as it sounds I had to do so to support my mom and brother. Eventually joined the Navy, took some college courses but wasn't interested. I do pretty well now, I have 4 kids , a wife ,a nice home etc.. Hard work, luck, and having common sense have served me well. I admire anyone who pushes themselves and earns a degree.
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by Buzzsaw » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:12 pm
Too funny, Willy. Good points. Kilroy too.
Now, as self-appointed education Czar, here is what I would do:
1. Completely destroy high-school as we know it. For the most part, it's useless. 80% of the students don't want to be there. They'd rather be doing something that actually set them on a career track. High school kids should be able to work full-time in apprenticeships, go to trade-schools, work in the family business, or go to college prep schools if they so desire. Mandatory, glorified, publicly-funded,l daycare for teenagers is a waste of everyone's time and money. Low paid Government service jobs would be fine too. JrROTC would be an option for many also.
2. Corporations and other employers should assess job candidates by their skillset, experience, and personality. Devise tests to give job candidates to find out. Screw stupid degrees.
While I realize some jobs by necessity require schooling (physicians, pilots, butlering), most are competence based. You either can do it or you can't.
Now, as self-appointed education Czar, here is what I would do:
1. Completely destroy high-school as we know it. For the most part, it's useless. 80% of the students don't want to be there. They'd rather be doing something that actually set them on a career track. High school kids should be able to work full-time in apprenticeships, go to trade-schools, work in the family business, or go to college prep schools if they so desire. Mandatory, glorified, publicly-funded,l daycare for teenagers is a waste of everyone's time and money. Low paid Government service jobs would be fine too. JrROTC would be an option for many also.
2. Corporations and other employers should assess job candidates by their skillset, experience, and personality. Devise tests to give job candidates to find out. Screw stupid degrees.
While I realize some jobs by necessity require schooling (physicians, pilots, butlering), most are competence based. You either can do it or you can't.
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by CdnSkyDiva » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:32 pm
Umm, does Flight Attendant school count as an education????
It was Really, Really Hard - It took a whole week just to learn how to point to the emergency exits....
It was Really, Really Hard - It took a whole week just to learn how to point to the emergency exits....
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by Renard » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:38 pm
CdnSkyDiva wrote:Umm, does Flight Attendant school count as an education????
It was Really, Really Hard - It took a whole week just to learn how to point to the emergency exits....
Flight attendant school eh? I wonder what the initiations for that are like. Do you have to join the mile-high club, or do you have to sneak a quicky in the flight simulator?
For me, it was a BA (Honours), and the hopeless pursuit of law. Now, i just want to cash in my credits and work as a UPS driver.
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by Dim » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:48 pm
The people I feel sorry for are the kids working their asses off to get tertiary degrees in computer science. They're spending years and thousands of dollars learning about processor architecture and advanced discrete mathmatics so they can go work in a call centre reseting passwords for a few years, before they lose their job to someone in east china or south india.
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by CdnSkyDiva » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:01 pm
Renard - Let's just say they don't call us "Air Mattresses" for nothing...
Just to clarify, I also have my BA, and find it quite useful when asking or responding to life altering questions such as "would you like cookies or pretzels?", "Can I get you a pillow or blanket?" or, my favourite, "No they don't call it a Lay-over for THAT reason"....
Just to clarify, I also have my BA, and find it quite useful when asking or responding to life altering questions such as "would you like cookies or pretzels?", "Can I get you a pillow or blanket?" or, my favourite, "No they don't call it a Lay-over for THAT reason"....
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by Renard » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:03 pm
So you really are a flight attendant. How exciting. Please tell me you work for WestJet. I love their commercials. Do you work regionally, nationally, continentally, or internationally?
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