Travelers that cheat on loved ones?

[Jumper]

I knew not to many would give personal info on this one. This is a tough thing to quantify other than an anonymous poll. I would guess that for us guys, it is the thrill of trying to get away with it and the sex with someone different. For the woman it would seem that it is neglect and lack of intimacy at home that might push them towards this direction. Maybe I am off base. Any input on that ladies? The other factor that I think applies to both sexes is the revenge aspect of cheating. I was cheated on in the past and hurt by it, so now my attitude is that I will do what I want before I get hurt. Basically the walking vindictive wounded.

[Jumper]

Please dont confuse my last sentences there. I was not refering to myself, I am a happy camper and very monogomous. This was just a reference to the typical persona that you would imagine as a cheater.

[shivers]

For a lot of folks, it's just that they can't be completely monogamous. They wouldn't want to leave their SO, but the can't resist playing around a little. Travel is the perfect oppurtunity for it.

[kilroy]

anytime i've taken an extended leave from where a girlfriend was or she took one from where i was, we broke off the relationship and left it as 'if we both live near to each other again and arent seeing anyone else the option to get back together is always open'.

but i'm a young'n, and therefore, my experience is somewhat limited. i've never felt i was in love or that i was throwing away something special that i'd regret later, so that didnt really enter into my reasoning.

[Leena]

Interesting question. Do I think it's healthy to spend time apart traveling? Really depends on the relationship and people involved. For myself, I'm almost compulsively independent and never would have married somebody who didn't understand that. Both my husband and I love to travel, and we take trips both together and apart. He enjoys the creature comforts more, while I couldn't care less, so sometimes it's better for us to travel seperately.

As for cheating and sex on the road... I've been faithful to him, and if he hasn't done the same, I really don't want to know about it. Having never been tempted to indulge in an affair since I've been married, I really can't say how I'd deal with it if I was tempted.

[Jumper]

The other side of the coin would be does everybody here care about this? I mean it sounds like most here would not consider it that big of a deal. If this is the case, knowing what we all know about life on the road, is cheating not considered cheating by some weird standard we have created for ourselves? If you sleep with a local villager that can't speak your language, would your spouse be mad? Or is cheating only really cheating when it is with someone that might be more of an equal to your nationality, language, and or race? Let me put it this way, does it matter who your loved one cheated with when it comes to betrayal? I think I could let it slide if my special someone had an experience with a non-english speaking local just as long as they didn't pick up a disease. Although I think it would bother me more if they cheated on someone that was more of a threat, like a best friend or a really squared away english speaking good looking rich guy. So what do you guys think, does it matter who the bastard is and do we really care?

[kilroy]

i've only had one gf who ever cheated on me, and i dropped her like a bad habit (well, i guess she kinda was one, anyways). i've never cheated on any gf that i've had.

[svizzerams]

Infidelity in a committed relationship is betrayal plain and simple in my book. Creating secrets that you know would harm/hurt your partner erodes trust even if they don't "know". I've fielded my share of invitations to be an "affair" partner (you know the ones that begin "my wife doesn't understand me" blah blah). My response has always been: when things aren't going right in your relationship you have two choices: 1) work on fixing what's wrong or 2) end the relationship in a courteous way to honor the regard you've had for your partner in the past. 3) I am not an option.

Its not fair to make someone who trusts you to live a lie. At least you should have the courtesy to let them make an informed choice.

To involve a 3rd party is too only invite chaos. Besides if you are cheating you have to justify it somehow and it is usually at the expense of your view of your partner (i.e she/he just isn't exciting enough, what they don't know won't hurt them, i have to stay for the kids, etc etc).

[shivers]

Seriously, if your SO would consider it cheating, it is cheating. All the other "it's not really cheating if..." rationales are just to make the cheater feel better about it. I try not to judge cheaters. It's their business, not mine.

[Jumper]

One thing that I think is interesting about the whole concept of cheating is that of the perception of what cheating is. And when you try to bring it out in the open with an SO about guidelines, they get defensive. The whole psychological warfare of love begins and hence the beginnings of trust and mis-trust. We talk about how being open in a relationship is a good thing and how it makes it stronger, but at the same time we give the other person more ammo to judge you by. If in the beginning of a relationship you told your SO that you cheated once in your life, or how many sex partners you had, or that you slept with their best friend before them; you will always have that information hanging over your head. How do you win? You have to keep silent on some things for the sake of the relationship. Is that living a lie or just insuring the survival of a relationship. Personally, what I don't know wont hurt me. I do care about the illegal, financial, or sickness stuff though, as well as the family dynamics and history. But how many of us out there could handle a loved one telling us that they cheated on you or have cheated in the past. Would the knowledge of this drive you mad or could you work through it and overcome. In reality, I bet not too many.

Maybe in our society we should reevaluate the concept of cheating. Afterall, we are not that good at staying together. Compared to animals we are doing pretty good, but by taking a good look at divorce rates, it makes you wonder. Should we be monogomous? Are we designed for such a thing or are we fighting our natural instinct? Why do we fight it and why do we hold this union with such high regard. In the animal world, having partners is a rarity and is not conducive to survival. Maybe cheating is mankind's answer to mixing the gene pool and insuring survival? Why else do we keep doing it? We have attached such an ugly face to this act and you wonder why?

I am still vehemently opposed to cheating though. You would think that rationaly speaking there are millions of women or men in the world to choose from and have as a partner. But when that one singular person decides to be with someone other than you, we get bent out of shape. The world caves in and self pitty amps up to level 10. Does a pygmy chimp get jealous when their partner finishes having sex with them and immediately jumps to the next chimp(male or female)? Or has sex been reduced down to what it should be and that is just an essential tool for survival and not a weapon of love. Is this what we are doing and should we view it so negatively? Who knows but all I know is that I better log off the Adult Friend finders site and say goodby to my internet lover quick because my wife is coming upstairs......Just kidding, not married.........

[svizzerams]

One thing that I think is interesting about the whole concept of cheating is that of the perception of what cheating is. And when you try to bring it out in the open with an SO about guidelines, they get defensive. The whole psychological warfare of love begins and hence the beginnings of trust and mis-trust. We talk about how being open in a relationship is a good thing and how it makes it stronger, but at the same time we give the other person more ammo to judge you by. If in the beginning of a relationship you told your SO that you cheated once in your life, or how many sex partners you had, or that you slept with their best friend before them; you will always have that information hanging over your head. How do you win? You have to keep silent on some things for the sake of the relationship. Is that living a lie or just insuring the survival of a relationship. Personally, what I don't know wont hurt me. I do care about the illegal, financial, or sickness stuff though, as well as the family dynamics and history. But how many of us out there could handle a loved one telling us that they cheated on you or have cheated in the past. Would the knowledge of this drive you mad or could you work through it and overcome. In reality, I bet not too many.

Maybe in our society we should reevaluate the concept of cheating. Afterall, we are not that good at staying together. Compared to animals we are doing pretty good, but by taking a good look at divorce rates, it makes you wonder. Should we be monogomous? Are we designed for such a thing or are we fighting our natural instinct? Why do we fight it and why do we hold this union with such high regard. In the animal world, having partners is a rarity and is not conducive to survival. Maybe cheating is mankind's answer to mixing the gene pool and insuring survival? Why else do we keep doing it? We have attached such an ugly face to this act and you wonder why?

I am still vehemently opposed to cheating though. You would think that rationaly speaking there are millions of women or men in the world to choose from and have as a partner. But when that one singular person decides to be with someone other than you, we get bent out of shape. The world caves in and self pitty amps up to level 10.....

In general most people accept that if you are married or living with someone the implication is that this is an exclusive monogamous relationship which precludes intimacy outside. My personal definition of "cheating" would be any activity that dilutes or diverts intimacy from that primary relationship. So I would consider cypersex, casual sexual encounters, emotional entanglements with potential affair partners (even if not consummated) as a betrayal of trust and potentially damaging. Even though there are those that would argue that not all sex is intimate, usually your partner would be disturbed to know you were engaged in it (the threat of STDs aside) and represents a real emotional threat to the relationship.

There is honesty and then there is brutal honesty. I don't think that detailed revelations of past relationships that predate the current one are necessarily useful. The focus of discussions I'd think would be best used to further development of a healthy relationship between two people who now think being together is more life enhancing than being apart. That said, it appears that most relationship rise and fall on the issue of basic courtesy. Our society has a "cult of romance", perhaps too much pressure is put on partners to "complete us" and "make us happy". Or dealing with partners that have those expectation of us...becomes exhausting. Relationships are not for the fainthearted: you can wake up just as lonely next to someone as you do when you are actually alone. But it seems there is something inherent in all of us that seek that kind of closeness with another person that is sutainable and consistent inspite of how often it doesn't work out - just read literature as far back as it exists and that theme is ever present. It does appear that for the majority of humans we are happiest when in love and loved in return.

[kilroy]

or you could just discuss with your sig other what your relationship means and whats kosher or not. some people are okay with relationships with outside casual sex or other stuff that has been mentioned. most are not. every relationship is different, there is not set boundary what is cheating and what's not.

also, i'd be much more willing to forgive a cheater who fessed up to it than one who kept it hidden, although i doubt i'd forgive either. and i definitely wouldn't buy some bullshit line about how my partner thought it would be 'better for the relationship' not to reveal past indiscretions.

[RYP]

speaking of the subject...

Former McGreevey official sought $50 million, aides say


Saturday, August 14, 2004 Posted: 9:04 PM EDT (0104 GMT)

New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey is watched by his wife, just to his right, as he resigns Thursday.

TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- The man who claims Gov. James E. McGreevey sexually harassed him was pushing for a cash settlement of up to $50 million before the governor decided to announce that he was gay and had an extramarital affair, sources told The Associated Press.

Golan Cipel's demands also included a last-minute push to have McGreevey's administration approve development plans for a private medical college in the state, two senior members of the administration said Saturday. Both sources spoke on condition of anonymity.

McGreevey's lawyer refused to negotiate, one of the sources said, and rejected repeated offers to pay cash to avoid a lawsuit that would detail the governor's relationship with Cipel, a former campaign aide whose appointment as a homeland security adviser with little experience provoked a major political controversy for the governor.

Cipel's lawyer first contacted McGreevey on July 23, asking for $50 million, one of the administration sources said. More offers were made, and the price dropped. Each time McGreevey's lawyer refused to agree and did not discuss the issue further, the source said.

Eventually that figure dropped to $5 million, both sources said, and the offers to avoid a sexual harassment lawsuit continued Thursday afternoon just as McGreevey made up his mind to declare his homosexuality and admit to an extramarital affair with a man.

Two sources close to McGreevey said Thursday that Cipel was the unnamed man the governor acknowledged having an affair with in his resignation speech that day.

The FBI is investigating whether a former employee tried to blackmail the governor, according to law enforcement sources.

Investigators were notified after Cipel's lawyer asked that McGreevey intervene with a plan by Touro College to build a medical school in New Jersey.

"Touro was a last-ditch effort when the money dropped," one of the administration sources said.

Representatives of the small Jewish school in Manhattan met with the state health commissioner in late 2002, but did not move forward with plans for a medical school, that source said.

Several calls by The Associated Press to the college Saturday were not returned.

The school's board members include Charles Kushner, a real estate developer who gave millions to Jewish organizations and politicians, including McGreevey and former U.S. Sen. Robert Torricelli, D-New Jersey.

Torricelli represented Touro College in its attempt to develop a new medical school in the state, said Sean Jackson, a vice president of Lambertville-based Rosemont Associates, a business venture involving Torricelli. Jackson said Cipel was not involved with the project.

"Neither Sen. Torricelli nor myself have ever spoken or met with Mr. Cipel. We find this whole matter quite bewildering," Jackson said.

Kushner was the sponsor for the work visa that allowed Cipel to come to the United States and gave him a $30,000-a-year job in public relations with one of his companies.

Cipel met McGreevey during a trip to Israel and then worked on his 2001 campaign. He became McGreevey's hand-picked homeland security adviser with a $110,000 annual salary but was unable to get federal security clearances because he was not a U.S. citizen.

McGreevey eventually moved Cipel out of that job but kept him on the payroll as an adviser. Cipel quietly left state government for a public relations job in August 2002.

Cipel's lawyer, Alan Lowy, did not return repeated phone messages left Saturday seeking comment.

On Friday, he disputed claims his client had threatened a lawsuit unless he received money. He said McGreevey's representatives offered Cipel money not to file a lawsuit.

"It was only at the insistence of the governor's representatives that I agreed to meet with them before filing a lawsuit," Lowy said. He added that "only time will tell" if Cipel pursues legal action.

McGreevey has made no public statements since his nationally televised admission on Thursday. The governor was unavailable for interviews Saturday, spokeswoman Kathy Ellis said.

He plans to leave office on November 15, a delay that would allow state Senate President Richard J. Codey, a fellow Democrat, to be acting governor until McGreevey's term ends January 2006.

Republican lawmakers have demanded that McGreevey resign now, which would make a special election necessary.

[Jumper]

First off, power is the ultimate relationship laxitive. Think about the temptations of fame and ask yourselves if you could contain yourself. Matter of fact that is another excellent question. If you were married to a Rock Star or huge Movie Star and they cheated on you, would you leave them. Would their elevated status in society and your connection to them make you think twice about leaving them? Especially if your status was just a small town joe or sally? Is tolerance relative. On the flip side, are you more compeled to leave that famous asshole and take all their money and write a book about it? Its alot of what ifs. I was wondering if any of you out there have experienced a relationship with a celebrity or was a celebrity in a relationship like this?
Now lets go the other way. Lets say an individual's status in society is basic pond scum unemployed former convict. Because of this person's status, does this mean you trust them less? Are they a worse human being and if they cheated on you would you care? I think in reality, if there is a kid involved or if it is blind puppy love, it wouldnt matter. Just watch Jerry Springer and Cops and believe that there are alot of desperate people out there willing to hang onto a cheater.
For my final point, is it worse for a guy to look at pornography than for a gal to read one of those steamy sex packed romance novels? Seeing how men are mostly visual and women are mostly mental when it comes to getting turned on, I would think they are the same. But in a relationship, who gets shafted the most for doing what? I know this is stereotyping both sexes, but it makes for interesting conversation. Especially with the advent of cyber porn and dating. There are millions of people looking at porn, and there millions of people exchanging emails with their anonymous cyber lover in the hopes of getting a thrill. Who does the most of what is up to you to decide, and if your lover is doing it, do you really care?

[svizzerams]

... and believe that there are alot of desperate people out there willing to hang onto a cheater.
For my final point, is it worse for a guy to look at pornography than for a gal to read one of those steamy sex packed romance novels? Seeing how men are mostly visual and women are mostly mental when it comes to getting turned on, I would think they are the same. But in a relationship, who gets shafted the most for doing what? I know this is stereotyping both sexes, but it makes for interesting conversation. Especially with the advent of cyber porn and dating. There are millions of people looking at porn, and there millions of people exchanging emails with their anonymous cyber lover in the hopes of getting a thrill. Who does the most of what is up to you to decide, and if your lover is doing it, do you really care?

Everything in moderation. It would seem that if reading steamy romance novels or looking at porn is excessive and interferes in the functioning of the relationship then its a problem. Usually women don't hide steamy romances under the mattress because it doesn't have quite the stigma that veiwing porn does. But if you are investing your potential couple time and a large share of your emotional and romantic energy into cypersex or online relationships instead of on the person you live with some introspection should probably be taking place. "Whats wrong with this picture"?

If my lover were spending alot of time online "chatting" I would be uncomfortable with it. I've had both men and women acquaintances that have jepardized or lost thier relationships via this route.

There are millions of people living their lives vicariously through things like Jerry Springer and reality shows. I guess I see life energy as a resource, you get to choose how you spend it - personally I don't want to invest alot of it in creating chaos and problems that need to be solved that are unneccessary. Enought legitimate ones come along that need attention. Most of the people I know who have been involved in affairs seem to seek the thrill of it - its like being the star of your own show full of drama and intrigue. That's one way to feel alive. Funny how they always regret the consequences when its brought to light.