Media RYP Blog Attack!

The Black Flag Cafe is the place travelers come to share stories and advice. Moderated by Robert Young Pelton the author of The World's Most Dangerous Places.

Moderator: coldharvest

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby coldharvest » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:26 pm

Kurt wrote:
coldharvest wrote:
Kurt wrote:Ignore bloggers.

most of them do seem to fall into the parasite category


Parasites at least have the decency not to scream for attention.

You owe lice and hookworms an apology.

You're right of course, I unreservedly apologize.
....heat of the moment and all.
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
User avatar
coldharvest
Abdul Rahman
 
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:36 am
Location: Island of Misfit Toys

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby RYP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:42 pm

There are some bloggers that generate their own content, fact check it and have done some great investigative reporting. Its hard to find a financial model to support the costs of travel, research, comms, editing and checking. Their overall impact is better in the gossip or technology world. Blogging allows you to post anonymous rumors, then magically delete them when the aggrieved person bursts their bubble.

Right now there are a number of legal actions that typically go after the service provider but there is an emerging group of lawyers who go after bloggers. Most bloggers can't actually pay up but the cost of defending themselves (whether they are right or wrong) is enough to convince them that their economic model is going to get a whole lot costlier if they can't back up their statements.

http://mikeyounglaw.com/wp/2007/06/21/b ... ory-posts/

Most of the lawsuits are the "Dyncorp-Sucks" type or copyright violation. I don't like to litigate but often its the only way people realize the gravity and cost of the mistake they have made. Its one thing to say something, its a whole nuther think to spend $100K and a few months supporting whatever statement that led to the case.

Publishing a magazine or a book puts you into an entirely different category of legal liability. Which is why when I write an article I am vetted by a fact checker (who does not tell me what or with how he is fact checking), legal counsel, an editor, senior editor and I must submit my raw contemporaneous notes and I photographically document all aspects of what I do, scenes or people. In addition I have witnesses who can provide their own view of the event.

I have come across many deliberate attempts to defraud or mislead readers (like Jane Mayer, Carlotta Gall, Jamie Doran, news publications, govt officials, and other books) mostly because they thought no one was there or they could get away with it. I fight them all vigorously. For example, I spent (and continue to spend) a significant amount of time defending soldiers I was with in Afghanistan against trumped up accusations of war crimes. I also defend groups, individuals and anyone who is the victim of media of blog attacks using falsehoods.

In any case bloggers are far too causal with the well established methodology of publishing on the record and it would be refreshing if they were held to the same standards I was.


1. 1.
Breaking News and Opinion on The Huffington Post

Darryle Pollack called her first blog "I Never Signed Up For This" in honor of all the times she has said those words at some point in her life as a mother, breast cancer survivor, artist, chocoholic, former TV journalist ...
Photo of Arianna Huffington
* By Arianna Huffington · 1 hour ago
* http://www.huffingtonpost.com
* Authority: 30,059
2. 2.
Engadget
* By WeblogsInc · 1 hour ago
* http://www.engadget.com
* Authority: 17,005
3. 3.
TechCrunch
Photo of Michael Arrington
* By Michael Arrington · 1 hour ago
* http://www.techcrunch.com
* Authority: 16,425
4. 4.
Gizmodo
* 6 hours ago
* http://gizmodo.com
* Authority: 13,589
5. 5.
Boing Boing

Boing Boing is a weblog of cultural curiosities and interesting technologies. It's the most popular blog in the world, as ranked by Technorati.com, and won the Lifetime Achievement and Best Group Blog awards at the 2006 Bloggies ceremony.
* By Mark Frauenfelder · 2 hours ago
* http://www.boingboing.net
* Authority: 12,763
6. 6.
The Official Google Blog

Mmm, well its the google blog
* By Manuel · 2 hours ago
* http://googleblog.blogspot.com
* Authority: 11,609
7. 7.
Lifehacker
* 4 hours ago
* http://lifehacker.com
* Authority: 11,181
8. 8.
Ars Technica Front page content

John Siracusa's blog at Ars Technica.
Photo of Ars Technica, LLC
* By Ars Technica, LLC · 23 hours ago
* http://arstechnica.com
* Authority: 10,547
9. 9.
Daily Kos
* 3 hours ago
* http://dailykos.com
* Authority: 10,517
10. 10.
Smashing Magazine

we smash you with the information that will make your life easier. a weblog dedicated to designers and web developers.
* By Sven Lennartz · 4 hours ago
* http://www.smashingmagazine.com
* Authority: 9,444
User avatar
RYP
Ownerus Websiteus Authorus
 
Posts: 27690
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:42 am

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby Jumper » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:01 pm

Kurt wrote:
coldharvest wrote:
Kurt wrote:Ignore bloggers.

most of them do seem to fall into the parasite category


Parasites at least have the decency not to scream for attention.

You owe lice and hookworms an apology.


Yes, Pelton should just ignore bloggers. But it takes two to tango, and I see him posting in the comments section on all sorts of blogs and ezines out there. Hell, there are blogs that even comment on him commenting on other blogs for fuck sake. And what kills me, is that he knows he should just ignore it all.

So what does that mean? He actually likes the attention, because it equates to more book sales. Any time his name gets out there, means another chance for a book buyer to actually remember who he is and possibly buy the book. Edgy-check. Controversial-check. Flashy title-check. Flashy cover art-check. Broad stroke generalizations about the military or security contractors, to appeal to the liberal peanut gallery he surrounds himself with-check. Sensationalistic story telling to spice up a book-check. Book tours and beaucoup log rolling-check. Selling books is what Pelton is all about, and he could give a shit about content or being fair.

Woodsman wrote:Oh boy...You know the truth about publicity though...it doesn't matter if it's bad or good...it just IS.


Also, for blogging tactics, picking fights or starting debates with other bloggers and media types, are a great way to pump up your stats. For a blogger, it is all about readership, and the readers love to watch a good fight. So stuff like this, is like watching a boxing match. Pelton is obviously the title holder, and bloggers are fighting with him to get their boxing creds up. Everyone loves to watch the little guy take on the arrogant big media types. And sorry Pelty, you are the arrogant big media guy in this whole deal. From your Men's Journal shit, to Producing TV shows, to being interviewed on all of the news shows, to writing book after book--you are the big media guy now. (let it sink in.....breath....breath....ok, now relax)

I also enjoy the parasite quote. You know, journalists have always been considered the parasites on the ass of society. Enter the newest strain of parasite, the epiparasite. This newest strain of parasite likes to feast on other parasites-- journalists, authors, and big media.

Like I said, Pelton should just ignore it all, because the more he shits himself, the more readership those bloggers will get because they are perceived as the little guy attacking the big media slut.
Feral Jundi

http://www.feraljundi.com

A blog about the security contracting industry.
User avatar
Jumper
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5994
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:07 am
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby Kurt » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:37 pm

What is funny is the milbloggers all admitting that this site gives them hits but never mentioning how that translates into cash or...respectability.

Media may be of a parasitic nature in that a media person will use the actions of others to make "news" but that requires action and creation by themselves as well. If nothing happend there would be no "news" except for perhaps the lack of news as news. If this was a permanent state then their would be no media, big or small....but bloggers would die off first.

RYP is small media in the sense that he actually comments on blogs personally. He is big media in the sense that bottom feeders want him to comment on their blogs.
And from thence they went to Beer....(Num 21:16)
English Bespoke Tailor New York City
Internet research and investigation
User avatar
Kurt
In Manus Manus
 
Posts: 19624
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:29 am
Location: New York City

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby RYP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:25 pm

Jumper,

You sound like a blogger...now the facts.. I respond when bloggers or individuals deliberately print incorrect information about my work. Call me old fashioned but I like to think that someone needs to clean the shit up after the parade.

Secondly I comment on forums where I think people have relevant or interesting things to say. Jumper got his diaper all twisted in a knot because he has this irritating habit of putting words in people's mouths and then going of on a self important tangent (like above)

Yes you can ignore it (but it doesn't go away), no it doesn't sell books (but it claims ownership over the truth) and yes its important that people regardless of their station or position do not perpetrate falsehoods or opinions based on fiction.

...and oh...if I am big media to Jumper...then I can't wait to introduce him to Joan Rivers or Fabio.
User avatar
RYP
Ownerus Websiteus Authorus
 
Posts: 27690
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:42 am

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby SusanKatzKeating » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:41 pm

(Ahem)... Actually, the bloggers are shaking up the MSM (RYP included), and the MSM is not happy. In the good ol' days, military journos in particular could write what they wanted about their far flung experiences, because no one was qualified to call them on outrageous content. Few editors were veterans, and - fact checking aside - did not know when they were being buffaloed.

Enter the blogosphere. Soldiers and bloggers alike are able to fact check and challenge, both from the field and from bases of expertise. This makes things tough on the MSM-ers. I see it as a good thing for all concerned. I appreciate the fact that RYP remains part of the dialogue, and I appreciate the fact that bloggers don't cower beneath his gaze (nor stare lovingly into his eyes, as do CERTAIN PEOPLE on this forum). As for me, I have a foot in both media worlds. I did hard time with the MSM, and still work for some of the big guys; and I maintain a private milblog. This New Media Order is good for everyone. It keeps us all honest.
SusanKatzKeating
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby coldharvest » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:51 pm

Marketplace rumour-mongering.....nothing more
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
User avatar
coldharvest
Abdul Rahman
 
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:36 am
Location: Island of Misfit Toys

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby Hitoru » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:57 pm

I did not even blush when I needed help ejecting my spent clip.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby SusanKatzKeating » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Speaking of the CERTAIN PEOPLE, there goes one now... Hey, Cold Harv! How ya doin'? What's that? You can't wave hello? Your hands are too tightly wrapped around the hem on RYP's robe?
SusanKatzKeating
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby LechoZX » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:19 pm

Aw snap, this should be entertaining.
Blah person
User avatar
LechoZX
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 3788
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:42 pm
Location: The Chi

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby coldharvest » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:37 pm

SusanKatzKeating wrote:Speaking of the CERTAIN PEOPLE, there goes one now... Hey, Cold Harv! How ya doin'? What's that? You can't wave hello? Your hands are too tightly wrapped around the hem on RYP's robe?

No..I've got my whole arm right up his farting gear.

You write an e-diary and think you're one of the people 'shaking up' anything?
....before electricity you would have been camp follower.
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
User avatar
coldharvest
Abdul Rahman
 
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:36 am
Location: Island of Misfit Toys

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby RYP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:42 pm

Susan

there is no such thing as main stream media, since even the highest paid talking heads have blogs. Many bloggers appear on network television. etc etc.

At $15M a year I wonder what each blog keystroke costs Katie Couric. Fox News is by definition main stream media and yet they pander to the right and right wing bloggers. Bloggers like to think of themselves as David against Goliath but the various games they play can get higher hits than major networks on Google searches.

I am impressed with real journalists. The guys and gals that triple check, work sources, labor under mountains of notes that stink like old cigarettes. And then carefully sift through hundreds of interviews, thousands of pages of notes and a thousand phone checks. Its a tough, low paid life but its the rough draft of history.

But as I said it is the fact that blogs are not accountable, responsible or ethical is what makes them attractive to amateurs, rumor mongers and charlatans. There are also far too many anonymous and even roboblogs that have nothing to with anything except gaming google. Can you imagine a CNN reporter with no name, his face blacked out and making up things hour after hour and then having other nameless faceless reporters agree with him without proof. What about a blogger with no name, no sources and no calling a legitimate journo a liar? Its clear that muckraking is fun but only if a blogger brings legitimate skills and accepted standards to the game. Most don't even bring new information but live off the sweat and risk of real news. Living off the labor of people someone abuses is called pimping :))

Milblogging is an anomaly because its supported by military PAO's as low hanging fruit, psyops and convenient weapons against "the left leaning press" . The PAOs provide embeds, transportation, food, tips and a skewed sense of legitimacy in exchange for fawning reports. They also expect them to gang together to punish miscreants who dare tell the truth

The funny thing is that soldiers don't blog freely (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6405962) but they rely on folks like you to play ring around the rosy and link to each other to create more impact that really exists. That's cool since the tactic is used by all special interest groups but its not journalism and it does not move the pubic interests along. Freedom of the press is designed to allow investigation, criticism and a lively debate of issues. Trying to dissuade someone from exposing problems in a 120M+ taxpayer funded program doesn't sound very patriotic now does it The usual method is to ignore the actual findings, attack the messenger, ignore rebuttals and to form polarized or politicized opinions.

That in a nutshell is why bloggers don't have credibility or impact on the public mindspace
http://people-press.org/report/319/publ ... evolutions

They will when they adopt the same quality controls as their mortal enemy "MSM" but for now reading a Blog isn't even the Cole's Notes equivalent of professional journalism but relegated to gossip and siphoned facts from the very people they say they despise.

Personally I enjoy many of the milblogs, the techno geek and automotive blogs, the Wired blogs and great efforts like Small Wars Journal and I even own a news service that looks like a blog (http://www.iraqslogger.com) but the majority of blogs are just not there yet.
User avatar
RYP
Ownerus Websiteus Authorus
 
Posts: 27690
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:42 am

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby Jumper » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:35 am

SusanKatzKeating wrote:Speaking of the CERTAIN PEOPLE, there goes one now... Hey, Cold Harv! How ya doin'? What's that? You can't wave hello? Your hands are too tightly wrapped around the hem on RYP's robe?



That was funny. At the flag, Coldharvest is Pelton's 'Spock'. :)))

Image
Feral Jundi

http://www.feraljundi.com

A blog about the security contracting industry.
User avatar
Jumper
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5994
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:07 am
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby SusanKatzKeating » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:47 am

....before electricity you would have been camp follower.[/quote]

Oh, right. And I can totally see myself following the likes of you. At least we'd have access to good scraps, since you'd be sure to prostrate yourself outside the general's tent. HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SusanKatzKeating
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: Media RYP Blog Attack!

Postby Jumper » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:50 am

RYP wrote:Susan

there is no such thing as main stream media, since even the highest paid talking heads have blogs. Many bloggers appear on network television. etc etc.

At $15M a year I wonder what each blog keystroke costs Katie Couric. Fox News is by definition main stream media and yet they pander to the right and right wing bloggers. Bloggers like to think of themselves as David against Goliath but the various games they play can get higher hits than major networks on Google searches.

I am impressed with real journalists. The guys and gals that triple check, work sources, labor under mountains of notes that stink like old cigarettes. And then carefully sift through hundreds of interviews, thousands of pages of notes and a thousand phone checks. Its a tough, low paid life but its the rough draft of history.

But as I said it is the fact that blogs are not accountable, responsible or ethical is what makes them attractive to amateurs, rumor mongers and charlatans. There are also far too many anonymous and even roboblogs that have nothing to with anything except gaming google. Can you imagine a CNN reporter with no name, his face blacked out and making up things hour after hour and then having other nameless faceless reporters agree with him without proof. What about a blogger with no name, no sources and no calling a legitimate journo a liar? Its clear that muckraking is fun but only if a blogger brings legitimate skills and accepted standards to the game. Most don't even bring new information but live off the sweat and risk of real news. Living off the labor of people someone abuses is called pimping :))

Milblogging is an anomaly because its supported by military PAO's as low hanging fruit, psyops and convenient weapons against "the left leaning press" . The PAOs provide embeds, transportation, food, tips and a skewed sense of legitimacy in exchange for fawning reports. They also expect them to gang together to punish miscreants who dare tell the truth

The funny thing is that soldiers don't blog freely (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6405962) but they rely on folks like you to play ring around the rosy and link to each other to create more impact that really exists. That's cool since the tactic is used by all special interest groups but its not journalism and it does not move the pubic interests along. Freedom of the press is designed to allow investigation, criticism and a lively debate of issues. Trying to dissuade someone from exposing problems in a 120M+ taxpayer funded program doesn't sound very patriotic now does it The usual method is to ignore the actual findings, attack the messenger, ignore rebuttals and to form polarized or politicized opinions.

That in a nutshell is why bloggers don't have credibility or impact on the public mindspace
http://people-press.org/report/319/publ ... evolutions

They will when they adopt the same quality controls as their mortal enemy "MSM" but for now reading a Blog isn't even the Cole's Notes equivalent of professional journalism but relegated to gossip and siphoned facts from the very people they say they despise.

Personally I enjoy many of the milblogs, the techno geek and automotive blogs, the Wired blogs and great efforts like Small Wars Journal and I even own a news service that looks like a blog (http://www.iraqslogger.com) but the majority of blogs are just not there yet.



Are you kidding me? Bloggers have certainly been more influential than you make them out to be. From the Presidential Campaign, to the wars, to even this current cluster fuck of a deal with the economy, bloggers are certainly making an impact. And the numbers don't lie. (ooh, don't stick your legal team on me for disagreeing with you.....pffft)

Technorati currently states it is tracking over 112.8 million blogs, a number which obviously does not include all the 72.82 million Chinese blogs as counted by The China Internet Network Information Center. Blog statistics often concern the English language blogosphere but we should not forget about the millions of other blogs that are not always included in estimations.


http://www.blogherald.com/2008/02/11/ho ... -counting/
Feral Jundi

http://www.feraljundi.com

A blog about the security contracting industry.
User avatar
Jumper
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5994
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:07 am
Location: Boise, Idaho

PreviousNext

Return to Black Flag Cafe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests