That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Old Blue » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:12 am

Interesting thought. I'll mull that one. Haven't heard it advocated much. Except by Baluchis.

Thanks.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby coldharvest » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:15 am

Old Blue wrote:Interesting thought. I'll mull that one. Haven't heard it advocated much. Except by Baluchis.

Thanks.

you be surprised how many people ignore armed, crazed, rug-making hillbillies....until they house violent gay jihadi Arabs who've just fled Sudan.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby maxforte » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:14 am

Old Blue, one of the things that came out of my little attempt to rattle you was that you came back with some interesting information. It also seems we both agree: Stanton is not making up his sources or their statements. It took a lot of hard work to get someone to recognize that. Now you're saying that what he writes is so true-to-source that people are getting fired over leaks because their writing can be recognized. HTS has a lovely way of dealing with problems, that much we can all see now.

I appreciate the honesty with which you replied to my comments, many thanks. I don't know if John Stanton sees these messages, but I will let him know, in case he has anything to add.

Also, can I ask you, or anyone: where do I find this exchange between Nagl and Bacevich? The latter is one of my favourite writers from that whole group writing on American empire, and I know of Nagl more indirectly.

Best wishes.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby maxforte » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:24 am

me: yeah. he's probaby getting his news straight from the cow's mouth. I mean horse's. Pardon me.
Sent at 1:08 AM on Saturday
XXXXXXX: no, he does that
all of Stanton's other articles are very obviously cut and pasted directly from emails (even the language is unchanged, and has wild swings of tone and voice)
he's so bad at concealing his sources that every time he writes something we know exactly who leaked it
so people have begun getting fired for it... which results in more "sources say" articles from him about how the people are so very persecuted


Almost missed that: the person who wrote that message is possibly angry about Stanton's article because he is one of the people who took part in the harassment. He just did it there, with that same message.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby maxforte » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:29 am

P.S.: Are these messages visible to anyone on the Internet, without logging in? I can't believe I am only now thinking about this question. This has to do with my wanting to copy and paste Old Blue's chat quote, which I won't do if this site and its contents are meant to be private. I don't necessarily buy the quote, but I like that it raises different possibilities and angles.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby coldharvest » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:37 am

which I won't do if this site and its contents are meant to be private.

we live and die free here Max
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Jumper » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:52 am

Holy cow, am I actually seeing a civil exchange on the flag? Cold, are you actually having a conversation with one of them heathen milbloggers? Oh the shame of it all....

Please, whatever you do, don't tell Pelton. :)))

But back to the conversation, because this is the good stuff. I actually spent most of the night putting my thoughts about the war on paper. The more I thought about it, the more roads lead back to eliminating corruption in government and promoting good sound leadership in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Only when that happens, can the governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan confront the Taliban and company from the high ground.

A government that the people can respect, is something a military and police force can be proud of and defend. The question is, how do you get them to that point of good governance? That is the 65,000 dollar question.

I also came to the conclusion that we need to identify the opinion leaders of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and map those networks that they influence. An opinion leader, are those that the people respect and look to for advice and counsel. These guys know their stuff, and have lots of connections. On the internet, they are easy to find. In third world countries, that takes getting out there and finding these folks. These opinion leaders are essential to work with, so the government can help connect with the populations. This is how they will sell their new reforms in government, when those reforms happen.

I say establish this high ground first, and then all other efforts in the war will be more effective. Security, rebuilding, all of it, will go much better for us, if this good governance is established first. I do not see that with the governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby coldharvest » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:15 am

Cold, are you actually having a conversation with one of them heathen milbloggers? Oh the shame of it all....

this, in a sentence, shows you for the entrenched, facile, ontologically-fearful Kool-aid drinker that you are.



...and so you don't have to sit there with your mouth half-open and your brows knit together that means,
just because I don't care to read someone's diary doesn't mean I won't exchange thoughts and ideas with them.


...and ask yourself this, do you think they would have allowed 'blogging' during WW2?
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby thewalrus » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:02 pm

Old Blue wrote:I'm hip on all of that except the reformation of Baluchistan. I'd like to hear why you bring that up. Rather uncommon, and I'm interested to hear it.

I've advocated involving the Iranians in establishing / reforming the (Sharia based) MoJ. We have no ability to mentor Islamic judges, and their court system is fucked. We don't like the Iranian court system, but it's more like what the Afghans actually prefer. The Afghans weren't as hung up on the differences between Shia and Sunni except for the extremists, anyway. The courts, especially the corruption in the courts, are a big IO gain for the Taliban. In areas where the Taliban are strong enough, one of the first things that they do is set up courts... and they get business. That's really bad for the government, because one whole leg of the three-legged stool becomes irrelevant. Classic Maoist insurgent tactics, and we are being schooled.


Good luck getting the average Afghan (It's a 75%+ Sunni majority country) to accept a MoJ based on Persian twelver Shia Sharia law. With the pay for judges so low how do you expect to eliminate the corruption problem even if you do change the belief system of the judiciary?
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Dr. V » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:11 pm

maxforte wrote:P.S.: Are these messages visible to anyone on the Internet, without logging in? I can't believe I am only now thinking about this question. This has to do with my wanting to copy and paste Old Blue's chat quote, which I won't do if this site and its contents are meant to be private. I don't necessarily buy the quote, but I like that it raises different possibilities and angles.


The site is in the public domain (you might remember that is how you got here!) - therefore the posts on it (but not the private messages) can be seen by anyone. Membership information / profiles are limited to members only - however the membership process is not exactly arduous and so anyone who wanted to access this would not have a problem. The site is indexed by search engines (just as well as our own search engine got obliterated in the upgrade) and so posts / user names etc also come up on related google searches.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby nowonmai » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:41 pm

Up the minute scorecard.

Oldblue - a hat trick and storming through a weak defence.

RYP - left the field. Just as well.

Maxforte - comes on with a great show, takes a dive and is now show-limping.

Jumper - determined runs through the midfield, real energy for an old guy. But "I actually spent most of the night putting my thoughts about the war on paper." Jeez- most people spend their nights trying to get thoughts of the war out of their heads.

Coldharvest - losing faith in Größter Feldherr Aller Zeiten.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Kurt » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:02 pm

maxforte wrote:P.S.: Are these messages visible to anyone on the Internet, without logging in? I can't believe I am only now thinking about this question. This has to do with my wanting to copy and paste Old Blue's chat quote, which I won't do if this site and its contents are meant to be private. I don't necessarily buy the quote, but I like that it raises different possibilities and angles.


The Flag is like a "secret game" played with a drunk uncle.

So feel free to cut & paste since it will stop the shameful secret but only after the cute little bunny rabbit pays.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Mikethehack » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:20 pm

nowonmai wrote:Up the minute scorecard.


How is my attempt to flood the flag with pix of babes doing?
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Kurt » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:25 pm

coldharvest wrote:...and ask yourself this, do you think they would have allowed 'blogging' during WW2?

you stupid millbitch
'look at me, I have inside dope, aren't I awesome?'


Christ..I think it is worse than that. I used to do some tricks to try to find out what was being leaked online by contractors and servicemen and it was quite shocking. Like "here is a picture of my translator and his family" type of stuff. Descriptions of patrols, who was on them and what they did...sometimes accompanied by film describing the whole proceedure. The more cautious of them now post pictures of their translators wearing a mask , but I always wondered why the Military did not introduce a policy of STFU? One thing it would have spared us from having to watch such humiliating events like soldiers playing air guitar and lip syncing while on patrol.

Ha Ha..Its funny because they are decked out in gear and singing the Beach Boys.....The bad music and poor improvisational skills we anticipated has actually occurred! Ha Ha..They have guns and are wearing protective eyewear while thrash metal music plays in the background...What was that? An explosion? How suitable that an IED has gone off while fast , hard guitar music is playing..it shows the danger of the area is best expressed with a guitar solo rather than words expressing thoughts.

So yah, I think that using the internet to get your translators murdered and inspire your enemy to view you as some kind of weird gun toting clown that no one could ever respect or fear ..that this was a bad idea.

If there was the internet in WWII the Germans would have known about the invasion of Normandy and the name of every person who was participating and who was going to the diversion site. Plus they would have know who like Tommy Dorsey and who liked Artie Shaw and what the name's of every kid's "sweetheart" was.
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Re: That Wilfred Brimley Moment..

Postby Mikethehack » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:15 pm

Jumper wrote:Holy cow, am I actually seeing a civil exchange on the flag? Cold, are you actually having a conversation with one of them heathen milbloggers? Oh the shame of it all....


Your secret is safe with me, sweetie. We are all big boys around here.
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