First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby deselby » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:30 pm

AztecDave wrote:
deselby wrote:
AztecDave wrote:As an Army veteran going on my 25th year of service, I can only say this is just more pure PC bullshit foisted upon the military by persons who do not have the slightest clue a to what is good, or bad, for the military. The current administration has its social agenda, and that's all that counts. It's infinately worse with Obama as president than it was under Clinton. At least he liked pussy. The Army's number one goal now is Diversity. Like that will save us from every evil in the world. Makes me want to puke. The current brass is so emanored with this idea it's beyond silly. It's as if they expect all of our enemies will quiver and fall to their knees in the awesomeness that is our Diversity. If this Sikh's language skills are so fucking critical, why is he a medic & not a HUMINT collector or a CI agent? And if this guy really wants to embrace Diversity, let him be roomates with the first fag that gets to suck cock on Army time. Christ, I cannot wait til I can retire.


Calm down, this was done back in the 70s under President Ford, having Sikhs with turbans in the army. There were some flaming gay guys in back then, too.

They also passed a law to allow yarmulkes for military personnel, it hasn't brought the military down.

The Navy allowed beards when Reagan was president, it also didn't open the door to invasion.

The guy's a medic because he wanted to be a medic, remember guaranteed MOS training in the enlistment contract?



Have you ever served in the military? Didn't think so. You don't know what you are talking about.


Well, I was able to get guaranteed MOS training when I enlisted, I know that.

I know that the sight of a turban makes certain kinds of personalities' blood boil.

But in fairness, there is one reason I can think of not to allow Sikh turbans and beards in the U.S. Army - the sight of them in Afghanistan will cause rumors of Indian influence and control in the U.S. Army.

Elsewhere, it doesn't matter, in my opinion.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:50 pm

AztecDave wrote:If this Sikh's language skills are so fucking critical, why is he a medic & not a HUMINT collector or a CI agent?


Was thinking the same thing.

I figure if you have to wear a God-hat of any kind, or if you have some kind of facial hair dictate from some universal magic force, or if you gotta stop what you're doing a pray at 5 specified times of the day, you should be a civilian and not a soldier. If we re-start conscription, then these weirdos can get their asses kicked and learn to put their religion second to their country... and if they don't like that, then they can go back to the shitty country that they came from.

You came to America because this place is a lot better than the shithole you came from. The reason America isn't a shithole is because people with your shitty beliefs have not ruined this place yet. If you got a special hat you have have to wear, or you gotta to fuck a cat and drink chicken blood to make the evil spirits go away, then go the fuck back to the shithole you came from.

Osama should send over his sleepers to join the US Army... they can tell their highers up that they gotta pray 5 times a day, grow a beard, and walk around in ratty burlap sacks and wear funny towels on their heads.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby sparrow » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:43 pm

Sikh's pray twice a day. They are not Muslims.
The Sikhs were founded as a warrior group meant to fight against injustice and inequality, said Lamba, who trained at Fort Jackson in South Carolina, so adopting Army values was easy for him.


Not something you'd want in your military?

Then how about this?
Nanak taught that rituals, religious ceremonies, or idol worship is of little use and Sikhs are discouraged from fasting or going on pilgrimages.[41] However, during the period of the later gurus, and owing to increased institutionalisation of the Sikh religion, many ceremonies and rituals did arise. Converts to Sikhism are welcomed. The morning and evening prayers take about two hours a day, starting in the very early morning hours. The first morning prayer is Guru Nanak's Jap Ji. Jap, meaning "recitation", refers to the use of sound, as the best way of approaching the divine. Like combing hair, hearing and reciting the sacred word is used as a way to comb all negative thoughts out of the mind. The second morning prayer is Guru Gobind Singh's universal Jaap Sahib. The Guru addresses God as having no form, no country, and no religion but as the seed of seeds, sun of suns, and the song of songs. The Jaap Sahib asserts that God is the cause of conflict as well as peace, and of destruction as well as creation. Devotees learn that there is nothing outside of God's presence, nothing outside of God's control. Devout Sikhs are encouraged to begin the day with private meditations on the name of God.

Upon a child's birth, the Guru Granth Sahib is opened at a random point and the child is named using the first letter on the top left hand corner of the left page. All boys are given the middle name Singh, and all girls are given the middle name Kaur.[42] Sikhs are joined in wedlock through the anand kāraj ceremony. Sikhs are required to marry when they are of a sufficient age (child marriage is taboo), and without regard for the future spouse's caste or descent. The marriage ceremony is performed in the company of the Guru Granth Sahib; around which the couple circles four times. After the ceremony is complete, the husband and wife are considered "a single soul in two bodies."[43]

According to Sikh religious rites, neither husband nor wife is permitted to divorce. A Sikh couple that wishes to divorce may be able to do so in a civil court but this is not condoned.[44] Upon death, the body of a Sikh is usually cremated. If this is not possible, any means of disposing the body may be employed. The kīrtan sōhilā and ardās prayers are performed during the funeral ceremony (known as antim sanskār).[45]


Doesn't seem so far flung from what we call Christianity. In fact, some of this makes a lot more sense, and seems more rational than a lot of the other ME religions.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby LechoZX » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Bobby Sands wrote:You came to America because this place is a lot better than the shithole you came from. The reason America isn't a shithole is because people with your shitty beliefs have not ruined this place yet. If you got a special hat you have have to wear, or you gotta to fuck a cat and drink chicken blood to make the evil spirits go away, then go the fuck back to the shithole you came from.


I agree with you to some extent but the only difference is this country is already run by people who have different magical shitty beliefs. They just don't have to wear a silly hat and not shave. Basically if the military is going to recognize Christianity and Judaism then they need to recognize other shitty beliefs too. They have been starting to do so with more than just brown people ie Wiccans. I don't have a problem with that. To me the two options are either abolish relgion completely or treat them all the same.

You should be happy this guy wants to contribute something to this country which is more than you can say for some smelly brown people.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:39 pm

sparrow wrote:Sikh's pray twice a day. They are not Muslims.


Yeah, I know... they gotta keep a knife on them at all times, gotta wear the turban, can't cut their hair, blah, blah, blah.

My point is that we shouldn't make accomodations for anyone. If you gotta give this guy a prayer break twice a day, then don't you have to give Muslims their break 5 times a day? I don't care what your God-hat is; a turban, a yalmuke, a skull cap, a papal crown, a big black Greek Orthodox stovepipe hat; leave that shit at home, or stay out of the fuckin military. The military has a uniform for a reason... and the uniform is "uniform" for a reason. If you serve your god or universal force or your anscestor or Vishnu first, then you have no reason to volunteer to serve your country first.

If we didn't have these stupid wars in the Mid-East, we wouldn't even need this guy and his god-hat, and he could do something productive with his life... like suing his local school district because they won't let Sikh boys carry knifes in school.

What's next? Letting Rastas keep their pumpkin hat dreadlocks and smoke ganja because it's their religion?
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby coldharvest » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Religious observance in the army is about as useful as a Snoopy costume in combat.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:55 pm

LechoZX wrote:I agree with you to some extent but the only difference is this country is already run by people who have different magical shitty beliefs. They just don't have to wear a silly hat and not shave. Basically if the military is going to recognize Christianity and Judaism then they need to recognize other shitty beliefs too.


Yeah, I agree, a religion-free military would be best. On the other hand, this country was built by Christians, and they generally don't need anything but a chapel and Sunday services, so I can see how we can provide that for historical and cultural reasons. Now, if Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Zorastrians, Shintoists, Buddists, Rastas, Santorians, Trix Rabbit worshipers can just do their prayer thing once a week, for one hour, then they are all Kosher in my book. If they need to wear special hat, then fuck them... let them go back to their home countries where their special hats are the norm. When in Rome, do as the Romans do... and if you don't like that, go back to Punjab and do as the Punjabis do... I don't go to Punjab, and ask to join the military with the proviso that I have to wear a t-shirt and jeans.

LechoZX wrote:You should be happy this guy wants to contribute something to this country which is more than you can say for some smelly brown people.


If the guy does it for free, then we can put him in some quasi-civilian role. If we wants to get paid and get all the benefits, then I'd rather have him driving a cab (which is probably less lucrative than being in the military). Training this guy and accomodating his beliefs is pure cost from my perspective... I don't see it as a contribution.

If John Candy got his head shaved for Stripes, then Sikh-boy should be able to live up to the lowly standard... really, it's not asking much for army soldiers to actually experience army life... if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen and take your fuckin hat with you.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby deselby » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:57 pm

Bobby Sands wrote:
AztecDave wrote:If this Sikh's language skills are so fucking critical, why is he a medic & not a HUMINT collector or a CI agent?


Was thinking the same thing.


Because, as I explained before, you get to pick your Military Occupational Specialty when you enlist in the Army if you want to and the positions are available. The guy probably wants to leverage the medic training and experience into a medical school admission or other medical career. Or maybe he just wants to be a medic.

His language skills will be identified in his MOS and skills identifier, for example he would be a 68W (medic) 1 (skill level) L (linguist) PJ (for example, if he speaks Punjabi). He is in the database for language skills and can be assigned outside of medical duties if the Army wants. He can also be paid extra money if he tests proficiently in the language.


Bobby Sands wrote:I figure if you have to wear a God-hat of any kind, or if you have some kind of facial hair dictate from some universal magic force, or if you gotta stop what you're doing a pray at 5 specified times of the day, you should be a civilian and not a soldier. If we re-start conscription, then these weirdos can get their asses kicked and learn to put their religion second to their country... and if they don't like that, then they can go back to the shitty country that they came from.

You came to America because this place is a lot better than the shithole you came from. The reason America isn't a shithole is because people with your shitty beliefs have not ruined this place yet. If you got a special hat you have have to wear, or you gotta to fuck a cat and drink chicken blood to make the evil spirits go away, then go the fuck back to the shithole you came from.

Osama should send over his sleepers to join the US Army... they can tell their highers up that they gotta pray 5 times a day, grow a beard, and walk around in ratty burlap sacks and wear funny towels on their heads.


I thought one of the reasons for the USA is that the individual could put a lot of things before the state, like religion.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:04 pm

deselby wrote:I thought one of the reasons for the USA is that the individual could put a lot of things before the state, like religion.


The military is different... like you don't get to do shit, unless...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLDaZvTfU9k

One of the reasons for the USA is to be able to wake up late, drink a beer or two for breakfast, and spend the day watching football in buffalo-wing stained sweatpants on the boobtube, but you don't get to do that in the military (for good reason).
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby deselby » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:21 pm

Bobby Sands wrote:
deselby wrote:I thought one of the reasons for the USA is that the individual could put a lot of things before the state, like religion.


The military is different... like you don't get to do shit, unless...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLDaZvTfU9k

One of the reasons for the USA is to be able to wake up late, drink a beer or two for breakfast, and spend the day watching football in buffalo-wing stained sweatpants on the boobtube, but you don't get to do that in the military (for good reason).


Hey, you're the one talking about drafting "weirdos" and kicking their asses because they "put religion second to country." I'm making the point that individual rights come before the state in the Founder's USA.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby lmetrucking » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:25 pm

The uniform and grooming standards are the cornerstone of dicipline and order.Exclusivity is a morale killer and a soldier killer in combat.
Joining the military is a total commitment for very sound reasons. He will draw attention to himself and away from the team in every command that he serves in due to his special privileges. I have no problem with freedom of worship or whatever one chooses to do in the bedroom. I have a huge problem with special accomodations being made for a select few that compromise core values and military bearing.
He should have enough honor, dignity, and respect for his chosen branch of service to be ashamed to even ask for special dispensation as a prerequesite to joining.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby LechoZX » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:29 pm

Bobby Sands wrote:
LechoZX wrote:You should be happy this guy wants to contribute something to this country which is more than you can say for some smelly brown people.


If the guy does it for free, then we can put him in some quasi-civilian role. If we wants to get paid and get all the benefits, then I'd rather have him driving a cab (which is probably less lucrative than being in the military). Training this guy and accomodating his beliefs is pure cost from my perspective... I don't see it as a contribution.


Just because he wears a funny hat doesn't mean he can do his job? It's not like it was an affirmative action enlistment.

I'm not saying that somebody should be able to eschew their duties and training requirements because of special religious requirements. Unless I missed something that seems to be the case here. He had to do the same things as everybody else. I think as long as they can perform as well as the next guy they can be in. The only exceptions he is getting is for facial hair and deviation on the uniform which have no effect on their performance. As long as the Army doesn't bend over backwards to accomodate him and he is able to do his job then I'm not sure why anybody would care.

Bobby Sands wrote:
deselby wrote:I thought one of the reasons for the USA is that the individual could put a lot of things before the state, like religion.

One of the reasons for the USA is to be able to wake up late, drink a beer or two for breakfast, and spend the day watching football in buffalo-wing stained sweatpants on the boobtube, but you don't get to do that in the military (for good reason).


That's a good point. For somebody who doesn't think much of government you also seem to be saying that anybody who joins the military should have the state as their #1 priority in life. That sounds a bit Maoist to me.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:15 pm

lmetrucking wrote:He should have enough honor, dignity, and respect for his chosen branch of service to be ashamed to even ask for special dispensation as a prerequesite to joining.

Exactly... if you have to lawyer-up to volunteer, then how about you do us a favor and stay at home with your special hair and hat routine.


LechoZX wrote:Just because he wears a funny hat doesn't mean he can do his job?

Because he has to wear his funny hat, he can't be uniform... and if he can't be uniform, he has no reason to be asking to wear the uniform except for the parts his god won't let him comply with.

Should the Army accommodate this guy too:

Image


LechoZX wrote:
Bobby Sands wrote:
deselby wrote:I thought one of the reasons for the USA is that the individual could put a lot of things before the state, like religion.

One of the reasons for the USA is to be able to wake up late, drink a beer or two for breakfast, and spend the day watching football in buffalo-wing stained sweatpants on the boobtube, but you don't get to do that in the military (for good reason).


That's a good point. For somebody who doesn't think much of government you also seem to be saying that anybody who joins the military should have the state as their #1 priority in life. That sounds a bit Maoist to me.



The military is a necessary evil. If you join it, you agree to be a warrior, and you agree to be treated differently than a civilian... do I have to quote Gunnery Sergeant Hartman again?

The guy has every right to walk around with his god-hat on the highways and byways of our great country... if he joins the military, then he should be uniform to be in-uniform... and he shouldn't be asking for different rules for him because his god dictates to him to dress or act or cut his hair in a different way.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby LechoZX » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:43 pm

Bobby Sands wrote:Because he has to wear his funny hat, he can't be uniform... and if he can't be uniform, he has no reason to be asking to wear the uniform except for the parts his god won't let him comply with.


But what does that have to do with actually doing field medicine?

Should the Army accommodate this guy too:


Somehow I think that guy won't want to join.
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Re: First Sikh to become U.S. army soldier

Postby lmetrucking » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:10 pm

LechoZX wrote-"But what does that have to do with actually doing field medicine?"

It has absolutley nothing to do with actually doing field medicine.
It has absolutely everything to do with doing field medicine as a combat medic in the United States Army.
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