Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:04 pm

Michael wrote:
Rapier09 wrote:Your killing Mac Sri Lanky's buzz,Michael.

Sorry, I was just trying to figure out whether or not I should be worried.


About Sri Lanky?

When someone acts that eccentric,yeah they're gone.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:16 pm

I'll take being called eccentric as a compliment. But really,I'm not like anything.

..and kilroy,myself and some others I know have hallucinated on cannabis. You just haven't been able to find the good shit.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby kilroy » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:18 pm

nonsense. i've smoked the best in existence. you probably just got rolled up on a sherm blunt :)
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:39 pm

Sri Lanky wrote: But really,I'm not like anything.


That is beautiful.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:48 pm

I think it's because my mind is fairly psychedelic to begin with,kilroy.

There's a statement for you to jack off to,Rapier.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:12 am

Sri Lanky wrote:I think it's because my mind is fairly psychedelic to begin with,kilroy.

There's a statement for you to jack off to,Rapier.


I look at your posts and I think something quite clearly left you dumb founded at some point or another.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Michael » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:27 pm

Rapier09 wrote:
Michael wrote:
Rapier09 wrote:Your killing Mac Sri Lanky's buzz,Michael.

Sorry, I was just trying to figure out whether or not I should be worried.


About Sri Lanky?

No, I don't worry about Sri Lanky...wonder about him sometimes, but never worry.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:07 pm

It does lead one to ponder what happened.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby coldharvest » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:22 pm

Rapier09 wrote:It does lead one to ponder what happened.

Cannibis may or may not lead to schizophrenia but you are proof positive
that rapacious cock-chugging leads to brain damage.
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:23 pm

There is a lot to say your own brain functions are failing you.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby friendlyskies » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:26 am

Caliban - so there's no published scientific study to back up the statistic that stoners get lung cancer at the same rate as cigarette smokers, but at an average age of 35? You realize that means that 1 in 5 stoners would get lung cancer by age 35, right? Ditto the stuff about cannabis psychosis - all this is just based on secondhand information you've overheard through the years? Come on!

After poking around online, sure, I've found some mentions of cannabis psychosis, but they are all very vague. For instance, one study said it affected 3% of cannabis users, while another said less than 1%. That's a 300% spread. In the one country where it is treated as an actual disease, Denmark, less than 100 people are diagnosed every year. Here's one official definition, from the UK, but there doesn't even seem to be a single US school of psychology or medicine that recognizes it as an actual disease, which is odd. Almost all of the descriptions online note that the term cannabis psychosis is controversial.

[Oh, and Caliban - I got all this from just poking around on google for a few minutes - please feel free to do more research and show that this is incorrect, but don't be all, "Oh, well 20 years ago a nurse told me that stoners get cancer more often than cigarette smokers and I totally remember that," and expect me to take it seriously. Because I know you drink, which means you may have alcohol psychosis, ie, hallucinations.]

CANNABIS PSYCHOSIS
A disorder specific to cannabis use, involving acute paranoid reactions, hallucinations, panic attacks, etc.

Cannabis psychosis is a disorder that leads certain vulnerable persons to experience visual hallucinations, panic attacks, paranoid delusions, etc. These disorders can appear when the drug is used (acute cannabis psychosis) or following repeated use, and persist when use has stopped (chronic cannabis psychosis).


OK, sure, that says about the same thing you all are saying.

But, then use your googles to compare the tiny, vague bit of information about cannabis psychosis to the huge body of literature surrounding alcohol psychosis. (Not because I think people shouldn't drink, it's just a relatively mild, socially acceptable drug, as opposed to, say, heroine or cocaine, that provides something to compare with the scientific studies of cannabis)

Sure, alcohol is used much more openly, so maybe it's easier to study. But don't you think it's interesting that alcohol psychosis is 10 to 60 times more common in users, and described as an accepted diagnosis by not only every school of psychology, as well as being attributed to specific (if hypothetical) physiological effects of alcohol in the regular medical literature? While cannabis psychosis is still this sort of hypothetical thing floating around, even after all these years of study? Also consider that governments have a much more vested interest in proving marijuana is bad for you than alcohol - alcohol produces tax revenue, marijuana sucks up taxes because of law enforcement, jail, etc.

Anyway, you all can use google yourself to find a zillion more examples, but compare this typically specific description of alcohol psychosis to the official, and relatively vague, definition of cannabis psychosis above.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview


Introduction

Background

Alcohol-related psychosis is a secondary psychosis with predominant hallucinations occurring in many alcohol-related conditions, including acute intoxication, withdrawal, after a major decrease in alcohol consumption, and alcohol idiosyncratic intoxication. Alcohol is a neurotoxin that affects the brain in a complex manner through prolonged exposure and repeated withdrawal, resulting in significant morbidity and mortality. Alcohol-related psychosis is often an indication of chronic alcoholism; thus, it is associated with medical, neurological, and psychosocial complications.

Alcohol-related psychosis spontaneously clears with discontinuation of alcohol use and may resume during repeated alcohol exposure. Although distinguishing alcohol-related psychosis from schizophrenia through clinical presentation often is difficult, it is generally accepted that alcohol-related psychosis remits with abstinence, unlike schizophrenia. If persistent psychosis develops, diagnostic confusion can result. Comorbid psychotic disorders, eg, schizophrenia and bipolar affective disorder, may exist, resulting in the psychosis being attributed to the wrong etiology.

Some characteristics that may help differentiate alcohol-induce psychosis from schizophrenia, are that alcohol-induced psychosis shows a significantly lower educational level, later onset of psychosis, higher levels of depressive and anxiety symptoms, fewer negative and disorganized symptoms, better insight and judgment, and less functional impairment.1

Alcohol idiosyncratic intoxication is an unusual condition that occurs when a small amount of alcohol produces intoxication that results in aggression, impaired consciousness, prolonged sleep, transient hallucinations, illusions, and delusions. These episodes occur rapidly, can last from only a few minutes to hours, and are followed by amnesia. Alcohol idiosyncratic intoxication often occurs in elderly persons and those with impaired impulse control.
Unlike alcoholism, alcohol-related psychosis lacks the in-depth research needed to understand its pathophysiology, demographics, characteristics, and treatment. This article will attempt to provide as much possible information for adequate knowledge of alcohol-related psychosis and the most up-to-date treatment.

Pathophysiology

Alcohol-related psychosis most likely relates to dopamine in the limbic and possibly other systems. The dopamine hypothesis often is applied to psychosis involving excessive activity of the dopaminergic system. Animal studies have shown dopaminergic activity to increase with increased release of dopamine when alcohol is administered. On the other hand, alcohol withdrawal generates a decrease in the firing of dopaminergic neurons in the ventral tegmental area and a decrease in release of dopamine from the neuron.

The pathophysiological systems of intoxication, withdrawal, and alcohol idiosyncratic intoxication all are different, and their relationships to psychosis are unclear. To some degree, they all involve the neurotoxicity of alcohol with resultant neurological, genetic, biochemical, and physiological pathology.

Alcohol intoxication results in disinhibition, sedation, and anesthesia. Acute depression of the cerebral cortex and reticular activating system results. The pathophysiology of alcoholism involves alterations in short-term membrane regulation and long-term effects on gene expression.

In patients who are dependent on alcohol, alcohol withdrawal results in adrenergic hypersensitivity of the limbic system and brainstem. Thiamine deficiency also is a contributing factor and is known to be associated with more severe episodes of withdrawal psychosis, which may present as a delirious state known as Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome (WKS). Psychosis is not considered a symptom in uncomplicated alcohol withdrawal in patients who are not dependent on alcohol. The psychosis often is self-limited and recurs with subsequent withdrawals.


Mortality/Morbidity

The appearance of alcohol-related psychosis occurs with long-term alcohol abuse; therefore, it is associated with the same morbidity and mortality of long-term alcoholism. Alcohol-related psychosis is a serious indicator of medical, neurological, and psychosocial complications, which hinder appropriate treatment and outcome. Prognosis with treatment is considered good, with only 10-20% of psychosis cases becoming chronic. Alcohol-related psychosis itself does not have specific morbidity or mortality; instead, it correlates with a cluster of risk factors that indicate higher morbidity and mortality in patients with alcoholism.6

Psychiatric complications of alcohol-related psychosis include higher rates of depression and suicide. The potential for violence also exists.

Alcohol-related psychosis may indicate undiagnosed schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders. The use of alcohol may potentiate or initiate psychosis through kindling, a process where repetitive neurologic insult results in greater expression of the disease.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby friendlyskies » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:51 am

Oh, and yes, I did notice that in an undisclosed fraction of cases, cannabis psychosis persists after discontinuing the drug, while alcohol psychosis clears if you quit alcohol cold turkey. What does persist, even if you quit drinking, is another psychological problem, depression. Once again, notice the difference in the specific type of information used to describe alcohol-related depression compared to cannabis psychosis. And once again, I'm not telling you all not to drink, that's your neighborhood Muslim cleric's job. I'm just pointing out that the literature backing up the presence of cannabis psychosis is pretty weak compared to that documenting the psychological fallout resulting from a similarly mild, socially acceptable drug.


Physiological Effects of Alcohol - Role in Depression

Alcohol has been found to lower serotonin and norepinephrine levels.
{"Food and Mood," Natural Medicine Chest, Conquer Depression Without Drugs, Let's Live magazine, Jan. 2000}

"Alcohol is a depressant. People with depression shouldn't drink alcohol", says Sherry Rogers, MD, in her 1997 book on "Depression." She says that studies show that doctors miss diagnosing over 66% of the people who are depressed.

Alcohol temporarily blunts the effects of stress hormones. It typically leaves you feeling worse than ever because it depresses the brain and nervous system. One study looked at people who consumed one drink a day. After three months abstinence, their scores on standard depression inventories improved.
{The Brain, "You Can Control Your Emotional Wellness," USA WEEKEND, Jan. 3, 1999, Jim Thorton, health reporter}

People with manic-depressive disorder should not drink alcohol.
{James F. Balch, MD, newspaper columnist and radio broadcaster, 1990}

Although important for all ages, in older people folic acid deficiency contributes to aging brain processes and increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease and vascular dementia. Depression is also common in those with folate deficiency.
{British Medical Journal, 2002} Andrew Weil, in his Self Healing newsletter (Jan. 2000) tells us alcohol use can lower levels of folic acid. The presence of alcohol hastens the breakdown of antioxidants in the blood, speeding their elimination from the body.

The acute depressant effect of alcohol increases with BAC, and has been measured in terms of its effects on human performance at BACs as low as 0.03.
{“Alcohol Effects on People,” U.S. Department of Transportation (HHTSA), Alcohol and Highway Safety, 2001, Dec. 2002}. Author’s comments: The BAC level of 0.03 can be obtained form one or two alcoholic beverages.

Depression and Alcohol Problems Go Together

When alcohol wears off, you will be more depressed than ever.
{Ann Landers' to readers, Dec. 5, 1993, as well as many other medical sources}

Depression and alcohol problems often go together, but the evidence suggests that in men alcohol use preceded the depression, whereas in women the depression precedes the alcohol use.
{American Journal of Epidemiology, "Study Links Depression and Alcohol Problems," Washington Post Health, Dec. 16, 1997}
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Rapier09 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:32 pm

You are actually one of the more stable posters here.
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Re: Can Cannabis Cause Schizophrenia?

Postby Holland » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:37 pm

I hallucinated heavy once on marijuana. I also had some type of complete breakdown another time. I figure it lasted about 5 minutes and was one of the few times in my life Ive been scared shitless. The bizarre thing was that there were two completely sober people sitting across from me when it happened and they hadnt even noticed it. Strange that you could completely lose it on the inside but act and appear quite normal to observers. Never any schizophrenia though.
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Never went crazy. Yet.

Postby el3so » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:39 pm

Holland wrote:I figure it lasted about 5 minutes and was one of the few times in my life Ive been scared shitless. The bizarre thing was that there were two completely sober people sitting across from me when it happened and they hadnt even noticed it. Strange that you could completely lose it on the inside but act and appear quite normal to observers.
Panic attacks, yeah, they happen, you breath through them, ride that tiger baby...
My sober mates noticed I was off, kids say "they have my back", heh, I'd go to war with these fuckers except they'd sell the guns and frag the sarge before me.

It was a quite sudden onset of awareness of mortality due to seeing an open sky FWIW. Moon making it's merry curve like times immemorial. Circle of life, hakuna matata sans the ebola, no need for drama.
5 minutes and some sugary drink, this too shall pass.

Guess in the end, it usually blunts the edge for me. Most things considered, that isn't a bad thing.
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