The Cheneys Are Cry Babies.

[seektravelinfo]

George W. Bush was a CHEERLEADER at Yale, for Godsake, how homo can you get?
Lynne Cheney is pissed off, so what. Mary Cheney is a grown woman. Why doesn't she speak?

[Tarkan]

for the first time in my life the democrats are actually fighting fire with fire. usually, when the republicans mudsling, the democrats just sit there and suck it up.

What fucking rock have you been living under? The democrats are and always have been the dirtiest SOBs when it comes to mudslinging. This is just routine for them.

[Tarkan]

I think all the media attention about this is gold for Kerry - the more fundamentalist christians that find out that the VPs daughter is gay the better for him. He doesn't risk losing any gay voters, since even Andrew Sullivan looks like he's casting his vote for Kerry.

I think that was Kerry's strategy from the get go. I disagree though that it is going to hurt the Bush campaign. And Sullivan switched camps a long time ago over the whole gay marriage thing. It appears to be his primary issue, and all other ones take second place.

[Tarkan]

Cheney supporting a president that want's to deny his daughter and her life partner the right to have protected rights similar to those received when heterosexual couples marry is hypocrisy at its highest and thus fair game in political debate. It demonstrates Cheney is willing to put the politics of the family-value party over the well-being of his own family. It also goes to show that the family of one of Bush's closest political adivisors and friend would also suffer. Cheney himself has mentioned her when asked about his policy on gay marriage.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at other people -- and surely shouldn't cry foul if other peoples' stones hit home.

You guys are idiots. Really.

What it shows is that the Cheneys don't think their daughter should be brought personally into an election that isn't about her.

It also shows that they love her daughter, even though they may not agree with the choices she made in life, and they don't think society should be changed to suit the whims of their daughter.

Pretty fucking sensible.

The only ones politicizing this shit are the Kerry worshippers. And that's exactly what the Cheney's are pissed about.

Prodigal, you and Patriot are seriously fucking deluded. Step away from the coolaid son before it's too late.

[Penta]

And Sullivan switched camps a long time ago over the whole gay marriage thing. It appears to be his primary issue, and all other ones take second place.

Can you think of an issue that would make you switch sides, overriding all else, Tarkan? I'm just interested.

[badmaxx]

But then I am of the mind that being gay is NOT a choice, but something a person is born as

Yeah, I thought it was funny that George W couldn't answer the question of whether being gay was in-born or a choice. Come on, the guy has probably been picking out "prissy" boys for communal punishment and hazing since he was an 10 year old in boarding school.

How come wanna-be cowboy tough guys have the most attuned gay-dar in the world (they can pick them out a mile away), but then act like gays just woke up one morning and decided to be gay?

Maybe dubya, like genetic scientists, really does not know the answer. Unless, Drs. Kerry & Sands have discovered the "gay gene" and are withholding the info from the rest, there's no proof to this oft mistaken for fact, opinion.

Please provide substantive medical proof of what amounts to your "feeling" on the issue. If you cannot, it behooves you to re-critique both debate responses.

[DawnC71]

Lynn Cheney calling John Kerry a bad man (She said "This man is Not a Good Man") is quite odd considering the opportunistic slag assed man she is married to.

[Jackson]

Lynn Cheney calling John Kerry a bad man (She said "This man is Not a Good Man") is quite odd considering the opportunistic slag assed man she is married to.

THAT IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE.

THANK GOD SOMEONE POINTED THAT OUT.

YEA, TARKAN... all of a sudden Lynn Cheney has lost all the little sympathy that I had for her.

[Bobby Sands]

What it shows is that the Cheneys don't think their daughter should be brought personally into an election that isn't about her.

Well, then the Cheneys should not bring up her lesbianism when it suits them:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29862-2004Aug24.html?nav=rss_politics

Cheney Sees Gay Marriage as State Issue
Vice President Details Differences With Bush

By Marc Kaufman and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 25, 2004; Page A01

DAVENPORT, Iowa, Aug. 24 -- Vice President Cheney spelled out his differences with President Bush on the volatile issue of gay marriage Tuesday while making his most revealing public comments so far about the sexual orientation of his gay daughter.

Asked his position on the subject at a town hall meeting here, Cheney replied: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with. . . . With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People . . . ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to."

....

[coolio]

LOL. Tarkan dubs people idiots when he doesn't even do the most basic research to help prevent making himself look like one in the end.

[Rupert]

Like my president, I don't have to take my direction from science to know what the truth is. Its genetic goddamn it! Do you fools really think them sallyfags chose to be teased during their high school tenure? Does someone really choose to like Barbara Striesand? Does someone really choose to like musicals?
Fools would lie prostrate in horseshit to defend idiots like Cheney, Bush, and the stupid social conservative banter they promote. As no attacks have been beneath them, the daughter is fair game (Remember the political ploy regarding Dukakis wife being raped in the '88 election?.) None of these people have morals, that's why they're politicians! Especially when considering it is perhaps the only area where Cheney doesn't dictate policy, because it oh so politically conveniently doesn't offend the puritan fuckers who should of never docked here in the first place. If Mr. Cheney was to be an authentic leader during his tenure, perhaps he could of explained to the social conservative base why he believes what he believes. But alas, we don't have leaders. We have spineless idiots who take INC fraudulent documents at face value despite the constant warnings of the CIA and state department.

[Rupert]

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[svizzerams]

But then I am of the mind that being gay is NOT a choice, but something a person is born as

Yeah, I thought it was funny that George W couldn't answer the question of whether being gay was in-born or a choice. Come on, the guy has probably been picking out "prissy" boys for communal punishment and hazing since he was an 10 year old in boarding school.

How come wanna-be cowboy tough guys have the most attuned gay-dar in the world (they can pick them out a mile away), but then act like gays just woke up one morning and decided to be gay?

Maybe dubya, like genetic scientists, really does not know the answer. Unless, Drs. Kerry & Sands have discovered the "gay gene" and are withholding the info from the rest, there's no proof to this oft mistaken for fact, opinion.

Please provide substantive medical proof of what amounts to your "feeling" on the issue. If you cannot, it behooves you to re-critique both debate responses.

I didn't state that there is a gay gene.....but there are studies suggesting some "switches" are turned on and/or off in the brain in response to hormones produced during pregnancy - the timing of these may be critical in determining sexual oreintation - a theory in the works.

But most of the people I know who identify themselves as gay state that it wasn't something they chose, but something inherent in their "makeup". Just as I can not state definitively why I am heterosexual - its not because I chose to be...I just am...its part of who I am. So why would I expect a person who identifies as homosexual to come up with a more definitive answer than I am able too. Seems intuitive. However, I reiterate that the behaviour and ethics of an given individual is a choice. So you can choose to behave dysfunctionally in relationships of either type. Personally I don't care what the orientation of adult humans are, but I do care if they treat the people they choose as intimate partners with dignity, respect and practice safe sex etc etc.

[Dim]

What fucking rock have you been living under? The democrats are and always have been the dirtiest SOBs when it comes to mudslinging. This is just routine for them.

I'm trying to think of democratic smear campaigns that compete with Willie Horton, the push polling to suggest McCain had an illigitimate black daughter and eight + years of anti-Clinton hysteria (who killed Vince Foster, ect ect).

I suspect that the Kerry campaign decision on Mary Cheney was a very calculated move taken after a lot of statistical analysis - and that the GOP has also crunched the numbers, know that this will hurt and that's why they're screaming foul. Some four million fundamentalist christians stayed home at election day in 2000 - they can easily swing the election for Bush - thus all the current BC04 campaign nonsense about how Kerry is a communist who wants to ban the bible and make homosexuality compulsory.

These people are even less likely to vote for Kerry - but now they're a little more likely to stay home and watch tv instead of voting for Bush.

[Prodigal Son]

You guys are idiots. Really.

What it shows is that the Cheneys don't think their daughter should be brought personally into an election that isn't about her.

Sounds like Karl Rove BS-spin Tarkan. If you had a homosexual child is this how you would treat him or her?

What it shows is that they are ashamed of their daughter and consider her a political liability. Why do you suppose Cheney has mumbled on about "states deciding" when he clearly supports a president and his policy that hurts his daughter?

If Cheney was anything more than a bottom-feeding Washington insider he would either flat out say his daughter's lesbianism was wrong -- thereby living up to social conservative's social mores -- OR he would flat out say he believes the president is wrong on this and support his daughter for the sake of his family. The fact of the matter is that he's done neither -- he's tried to have it both ways. Shamelessly playing to the GOP social-conservative base while also not trying to hurt his daughter and her life-partner too much. This is waffling on a level far-removed from Kerry's flip-flops -- he's waffling on an issue that directly effects his family.

It also shows that they love her daughter, even though they may not agree with the choices she made in life, and they don't think society should be changed to suit the whims of their daughter.

Pretty fucking sensible.

Not at all Tarkan. Look at his statements. He's said he supports "states" interpreting what the law on marriage should be -- thereby effectively saying Mass. enacting and other states banning gay marriage is ok. That is isn't a clear statement. That isn't supporting one policy over another. He's trying to cut it both ways -- putting politics first instead of his family.

But, then, what can you expect of a man who trades with Iran and Iraq one year, and calls them implaccable enemies the next? All this goes to show is that Cheney is corrupt and self-serving, like all politicians. What galls and disgusts me, however, is that he's waffling on an issue he clearly shouldn't be. If he loves his daughter he would support her and not keep her hidden away out of political embarrassment, or state flatly what he thinks his daughter is doing is wrong.

The only ones politicizing this shit are the Kerry worshippers. And that's exactly what the Cheney's are pissed about.

Prodigal, you and Patriot are seriously fucking deluded. Step away from the coolaid son before it's too late.

No Tarkan -- I see a man shamelessly exploiting an issue for the sake of his political party at the expense of his family. It's self-serving hypocrisy that deserves to be pointed out. What you can't stand is that Democrats have successfully turned on Cheney a divisive wedge issue that has for decades has been used by self-righteous, bible-thumping social conservatives. A party that promotes its "family values" as its major selling point shouldn't be afraid to have others examine those families and the values they promote.