Potshots at Home Schooling

[Prodigal Son]

I agree with you about effort Skit, but inequality in education and the culture of slackdom you're bitching about are intimately related -- self-reinforcing. I noted that many inner-city black parents are rooting for school choice because they KNOW that even with their encouragement and discipline their children are getting a raw deal when it comes to education.

And I'm not playing the "class card" -- school choice coupled with fairly funded education vouchers would probably be a good thing.

School choice allows parents to remove their kids from failing schools and the culture of failure it breeds and insert them into something different. That puts pressure on those failing schools to do better or die -- that is why capitalism works. Federalizing school funding couled with education vouchers merely gives everyone the opportunity to be a consumer in the education market. It would surely be less expensive in the long run than the vast failure that is public education in the United States.

And you're right buzz, I see your point.

[seektravelinfo]

Kilroy:

Are you saying that dumbass kids learn better from dumbass teachers?

Um, they call themselves "educators" now. And in spite of their claims they are well paid. I never never as a matter of morals voted against a school levy, until my daughter entered high school and I met some of the "educators" and got a life sized view of their smug mediocre world. Quality should start with the paid staff, and that is sorely lacking.

[haganah]

My sister homeschools my nephews and she's a whack to be nice. My nephews are well aware that they are somehow 'different.' Homeschooling parents should be monitered just like public schools.

[yorick]

Home Schooling Disaster....

My brother's wife in California couldnt have children, so they adopted a kid and then "Home Schooled Him" from age 6 - 9 until my bro's wife finally gave up on the idea. This made the first few years of formal schooling really rough on the lad as he was ill-prepared.

She had zero teaching experience and questionable parenting skills. Meanwhile the little tyke proved to have exceptional musical abilities.... He could pick up and play practically any musical instrument and even had perfect pitch himself, being able to tune his guitar by ear. But nobody in the family knew beans about music, so they all tried to ram Math and Reading down his throat.... or whatever "fashionable california ideas" that Mom could cook up for her nutty home-school curriculum.

It wasnt long before "mama" decided the musically gifted lad suffered some sort of mental disability (probably because she could teach him nothing) and then she ventured into the world of head-shrinkers to find a suitable diagnosis that she could assign to the poor little bastard, my nephew.

Even though the kid was only 9 yrs old, quack psychologists were eager to "study" the case and he quickly got passed around among doctors who knew a good "investment" when they saw one...... And it wasnt long before the lad was put on drugs and the family was getting tapped for about $300 per month medical expenses that amounted to rap sessions with head-shrinkers and prescription drugs that just helped fuck up the kids head.

The last time I spoke with my brother, he advized me that they were still having problems with the lad who just wanted to make music.

I suggested to him that maybe the boy was highly gifted in music and would do fine if he survives grade school academics, and that possibly the worst influence on a creative mind is feeble minded phsychologists and their counterparts who rarely have a clue in the world what they are dealing with.

Finally I told my brother that the fucking cunt, the boy's adopted mother, should probably see a head-shrinker herself to understand why mothers are so quick to "invent" and "assign" illnesses to their sons, especially adopted children. There's a clinical name for this phenomenon, but I cant think of it now.

Oh well, they all cant be success stories. But I think most experienced professional teachers will agree that parents' involvement in education often does the child more harm then good.


(:=

[Skirita]

At the very least, homeschooling parents should have to meet certain academic criteria. Neither of my parents ever finished high school, yet in Florida, they're allowed to "teach" my little brothers...

[kilroy]

Kilroy:

Are you saying that dumbass kids learn better from dumbass teachers?

In some states, parents who want to homeschool have to take some of the SAME EXAMS that teachers take, but they have to pass the first time -- teachers have three tries over a period of a couple of years, if they fail the first time.

That means that, in those states, ALL homeschool teachers have passed their exams, while not all public school teachers have passed their exams.

How much more "social skills" practice do kids get when they are told to sit down, don't talk to the other kids, and do their work?

well, those teachers may be dumbasses, but i bet there are certainly a proportional number of dumbass homeschool parent teachers.

by the way, what states do they make those homeschool parents take those tests? and you said some of the same tests, too. what tests dont they take that regular teachers do? what are these tests about? i dont know about every state, but in wisconsin, where one of my good friends was homeschooled, that aint how it works at all. and in alabama, there's no law governing homeschool at all.

oh, and what about the social skills learned during gym class, lunchtime, recess, and during afterschool activities such as sports and band? also, homeschool kids dont get exposed to any worldviews outside what their parents allow them to.

i will say that my suspicion that homeschool students learn less academically than their public school peers was incorrect, though.

http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/

[SoloPilot]

Kilroy:

No. Parents in those states who fail the exam are required to send their kids to public school . . .where they may be taught by teachers who also failed the exam TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

Which states? The one I have firsthand knowledge of is Arizona. The AZ education people said that they got the idea of making homeschoolers take the exam from "the other states" which do that too.

Social skills learned in gym class, lunchtime, recess band and sports, that weren't learned in the neighborhood?

[Skirita]

Social skills learned in gym class, lunchtime, recess band and sports, that weren't learned in the neighborhood?

You're assuming that homeschooler parents actually let their kids out of the house...

In my little brothers' case, they live in a rural area with no other kids for miles around. Zero social skills.

[Texas Carnie Roadshow]

How much more "social skills" practice do kids get when they are told to sit down, don't talk to the other kids, and do their work?

You make a good point with the tests, however there is a deficiancy in the social skills.
You meet more diverse groups of people in schools, whether it's your classmates, people you're at lunch/recess with, or people you ride the bus with. Through that, you meet more people, and while it may not be understood by the child, he/she's learning diversity, and culture.

[SoloPilot]

Dunno about that, kids tend to group together by neighborhood, skin color, religion, etc.

The only experts who really raise the "social" issue make their money on the public school system. Child psychologists in private practice don't seem to have a problem with it.

[patriot]

You make a good point with the tests, however there is a deficiancy in the social skills.
You meet more diverse groups of people in schools, whether it's your classmates, people you're at lunch/recess with, or people you ride the bus with. Through that, you meet more people, and while it may not be understood by the child, he/she's learning diversity, and culture.

I've met plenty of kids who went to public school and ended up having zero social skills anyway. Your ability to socialize is more or less instilled through your parents.

[yorick]

Okay, you bunch of snivelling sentimentalists answer me this:

Why is it the finest adults are most often those who rebelled and escaped the influence of their parents at an early age? Whereas anybody who dwells in their parents' house too long becomes hobbled and meek.

It used to be in the good old days that mothers would often die mercifully at child birth, and then the kid would chain his father to the dungeon wall - or put the old man's head on a pole - and seize the kingdom when he became of age to rule the land.


(:=

[kilroy]

Dunno about that, kids tend to group together by neighborhood, skin color, religion, etc.

The only experts who really raise the "social" issue make their money on the public school system. Child psychologists in private practice don't seem to have a problem with it.

when you say stuff like that, it would be nice if you would actually back it up, especially if youre actually trying to convince other people. give me a link or a report or something that shows parents can only take the test once that teachers can fail multiple times. quote me a child psychologist who says that there is no difference between the social skills of the homeschooled and the public schooled. i'm not going to just take your word for it, especially when the laws of all the states i know dont work the way you say they do, and i've read several reports saying that homeschooled kids have less developed social skills.

even when you said that homeschooled kids do better on average on tests, i was the one who posted supporting evidence.