"Last Letters Home"

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"Last Letters Home"

Postby Kevin509 » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:11 pm

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/lastlettershome/?ntrack_para1=feat_main_title

Did anyone have a chance to watch this? Unfortunately I don't get HBO were I'm at. It looked like it would be a hard documentary to watch without getting a lump in my throat.[/url]
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Postby svizzerams » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:05 pm

I noticed the companion book in Barnes and Noble a couple of days ago, not realizing at the time there was a documentary associated with it, started flipping through it and got all teary eyed. Had to put it down. Then heard an interveiw with the film maker and people reading some of the letters yesterday on NPR...gut wrenching. I doubt I could watch the actual documentary without a box of kleenex.

Just to tie it with the CNN poll stating 89% of people believe the government is covering up 9-11. I don't know - it seems that if you have psychic abilities you could prevent all and every potential bad thing happening - hindsight being 20/20 and all..but Iraq was deliberate, calculated...and unnecessary...and the particular set of consequences being endured by both Americans and Iraqis VERY PREDICTABLE !!!!!

NPR story this AM about funeral two best friends, 21 years old, killed in Iraq last week - my daughter is 21. Jesus.
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Postby DawnC71 » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:53 am

I did watch it and cried nearly the whole damn time...dont watch it right before bedtime as I did particularly if you are an insomniac like me...I did not sleep for two days afterwards.

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Postby seektravelinfo » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:30 am

DawnC71 wrote:...I did not sleep for two days afterwards.

Cheers,
dawn


Why not? W, Rumsfield, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz are sleeping like babies.
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Postby svizzerams » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:26 pm

seektravelinfo wrote:
DawnC71 wrote:...I did not sleep for two days afterwards.

Cheers,
dawn


Why not? W, Rumsfield, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz are sleeping like babies.


well, ya know, grief is a wimpy flip-flopping, tax and spend liberal, blue state thang...neocons just sum it up: its a sacrifice for democracy, freedom and the american way of life....oh and regrettable collateral damage when the dead civilian has other than an american passport.
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Postby DawnC71 » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:25 pm

Watched it again last night...it was on HBO.


Cannot do a fucking thing abot how Condie, Rumsy, Cheney, or Bushy are sleeping after they watch it...they are a bunch of psychos so the fact they are sleeping like babies just tells me that the title of psycho fits them appropriately
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Postby Land Rover » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:47 am

svizzerams wrote:l..but Iraq was deliberate, calculated...and unnecessary...


unnecessary? would you rather have the iraq women continue to be raped, the men mangled and the children tortured?


NPR story this AM about funeral two best friends, 21 years old, killed in Iraq last week - my daughter is 21. Jesus.


you join the military, you face the consequences. period.
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Postby seektravelinfo » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:57 am

Land Rover wrote:

you join the military, you face the consequences. period.


It doesn't stop there. Lie to the people, you face the consequences. period.
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Postby svizzerams » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:04 am

Land Rover wrote:
svizzerams wrote:l..but Iraq was deliberate, calculated...and unnecessary...


unnecessary? would you rather have the iraq women continue to be raped, the men mangled and the children tortured?


NPR story this AM about funeral two best friends, 21 years old, killed in Iraq last week - my daughter is 21. Jesus.


you join the military, you face the consequences. period.


You join the military to defend your country when it is necessary. We don't have a military to put them into harms way for the whims of a few arrogant lying bastards that have a personal agenda. And no - I don't want to have iraqi women raped, men mangled and children tortured...but I don't want them to be blown to bits, their homes destroyed, limbs blown off, blinded by shrapnel... etc etc etc

What Saddam did was inexcusable, unforgivable,.... but what is happening now is not much better. Every problem has usually a number of choices to choose from...an invasion of Iraq was one of the weakest on the list of possibilities. If any of the statistics of casualties (american and iraqi) are even remotely accurate then the invasion clearly has done more harm than good. I'm no psychic (and I'm not psychotic either) but the day the bombing started it seems like a monumental mistake...and as far as I can tell there is absolutely no reason for me to change my assessment of this particular decision on the part of our arrogant leaders!!!! If anything my feelings of trepidation are vindicated as this unfolds. HOWEVER, that said, we broke it...we have to stay and try to fix it. Its just a mess - a goddam unnecessary pathetic mess.

And no person joining the military did so with the intention of becoming mere cannon fodder for the whims of a bunch of arrogant politicians "who sleep well at night" - while the sons and daughters of others are put recklessly in harms way and not for the direct defense of this nation. Its a crime against humanity on all fronts as far as I'm concerned.
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Postby Land Rover » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:12 pm

[/quote]You join the military to defend your country when it is necessary. We don't have a military to put them into harms way for the whims of a few arrogant lying bastards that have a personal agenda. And no - I don't want to have iraqi women raped, men mangled and children tortured...but I don't want them to be blown to bits, their homes destroyed, limbs blown off, blinded by shrapnel... etc etc etc[/quote]

when you join the military you don't get a choice whether or not to go to war. it is an understanding that when you join, you MAY go to war. Also, you don't join the military and necessarily have to agree with what you go to war for...it's a job, not a goddamn political platform. Don't join the military if you can't handle people making political decsions for you.


[/quote]What Saddam did was inexcusable, unforgivable,.... but what is happening now is not much better. Every problem has usually a number of choices to choose from...an invasion of Iraq was one of the weakest on the list of possibilities. If any of the statistics of casualties (american and iraqi) are even remotely accurate[/quote]

are they accurate?

[/quote]then the invasion clearly has done more harm than good. [/quote]

according to who? the media that you read? the iraqis? the bible belters?

I'm no psychic (and I'm not psychotic either) but the day the bombing started it seems like a monumental mistake...and as far as I can tell there is absolutely no reason for me to change my assessment of this particular decision on the part of our arrogant leaders!!!!

[/quote] you don't have to agree, but don't speak for those that are there. unfortunately, all we see on the news is what i deem emotional porn re dying soldiers and their families. these stories we hear are biased and made to make us feel guilty about sending our sons and daughters to war. although i do not contend dying in a war is somehow good, the crap we see on TV is hype[/quote]

[/quote]If anything my feelings of trepidation are vindicated as this unfolds. HOWEVER, that said, we broke it...we have to stay and try to fix it. Its just a mess - a goddam unnecessary pathetic mess. [/quote]

in case you haven't heard, the iraqi people are in charge now. it's up to them.

[/quote]And no person joining the military did so with the intention of becoming mere cannon fodder for the whims of a bunch of arrogant politicians "who sleep well at night" - while the sons and daughters of others are put recklessly in harms way and not for the direct defense of this nation. Its a crime against humanity on all fronts as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

whims. yeah, i am sure that it was a whim to go to war. you think they are sleeping well at night? be serious. that is a ridiculous assessment. on another note, aren't you the same type of person who is blaming GW for 9-11...for not preventing it..? well, don't you think he is trying to prevent another 9-11, as opposed to just calling a war on a whim? if we didn't invade iraq and WMD were used against us in another homeland security breach, then would you blame GW administration again for not knowing? It just stupifies me that this adminstration is being held responsible for 9-11 and then when they try to prevent another catastrophe from happening....it's a crime against humanity (your words). Do a reality check.[/quote]
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Postby Land Rover » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:13 pm

seektravelinfo wrote:
Land Rover wrote:

you join the military, you face the consequences. period.


It doesn't stop there. Lie to the people, you face the consequences. period.


who lied? you think we invaded iraq for the fun of it? that is immature, unrealistic and based on what you heard on the news.
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Postby Land Rover » Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:20 pm

seektravelinfo wrote:
DawnC71 wrote:...I did not sleep for two days afterwards.

Cheers,
dawn


Why not? W, Rumsfield, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz are sleeping like babies.


actually, ashcroft quit and cheney had chest pains.


KURT - this thread belongs in the conspiracy theory thread.....
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half a league half a league half a league onward .........

Postby seektravelinfo » Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:10 pm

Land Rover wrote:
seektravelinfo wrote:
DawnC71 wrote:...I did not sleep for two days afterwards.

Cheers,
dawn


Why not? W, Rumsfield, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz are sleeping like babies.


actually, ashcroft quit and cheney had chest pains.


KURT - this thread belongs in the conspiracy theory thread.....


For clarity: I didn't mention Ashcroft. Cheney simply has a cold and it wasn't chest pain that sent him to the ER,it was shortness of breath. He's just a big sissy boy.
Meanwhile, my dear, your suggestion that W's invasion of Iraq will suppress future 9/11's on US soil doesn't fly. The invasion will and it is however, breeding the possibility and dire reality of more 9/11's.
That is not a "conspiracy theory", it's a consequence. The majority of insurgents in Fallujah have not been killed, they've simply fled and spread out. And they ain't going to Disneyland.
Our disturbing and tragic reality is that the Bush White House are not losing sleep, steadfast in their conviction (fueled by the religious right, the xenophobes, the hubris hysterics and the neocons) that the human sacrifices of American soldiers and Iraqi citizens are not in vain.
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Postby svizzerams » Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:42 pm

when you join the military you don't get a choice whether or not to go to war. it is an understanding that when you join, you MAY go to war. Also, you don't join the military and necessarily have to agree with what you go to war for...it's a job, not a goddamn political platform. Don't join the military if you can't handle people making political decsions for you.


It may not be a political platform, but lives of others shouldn't be spent as pawns either....

are they accurate?


Are they? Are they not... a significant number of people are dead and maimed that wouldn't have been based on the decisons of a few people in our administration for what increasingly seems like bogus reasons.

....according to who? the media that you read? the iraqis? the bible belters?


From a number of sources - I don't actually watch much TV so I don't get my news from the mainstream media nor do I see many images of the war, except still photography - primarily BBC, NPR sources, periodicals (Foreign Policy, Economist) newspaper, books, documentaries, and people who have been there...

you don't have to agree, but don't speak for those that are there. unfortunately, all we see on the news is what i deem emotional porn re dying soldiers and their families. these stories we hear are biased and made to make us feel guilty about sending our sons and daughters to war. although i do not contend dying in a war is somehow good, the crap we see on TV is hype


Maybe so - but I don't watch that programming so can't address the biases that may exist - I do find it fascinating that both the left and the right decry the bias is always in favor of the "other" perspective. I'm also not contending that war should never be engaged in. I felt the sending of troops to Afghanistan was justified. The connection between activities there and 9-11 were pretty well defined and clear. This did not exist in relation to invasion of Iraq - the case was not made before the invasion and that reality seems reinforced since the invasion. So yes, It is obscene that Americans and Iraqis are dying by the direct actions of OUR nation in THAT country. And what was presented to the American people in the media by our leaders prior to the invasion that wasn't hype and crap?????!!!!!!!!

whims. yeah, i am sure that it was a whim to go to war. you think they are sleeping well at night? be serious. that is a ridiculous assessment. on another note, aren't you the same type of person who is blaming GW for 9-11...for not preventing it..? well, don't you think he is trying to prevent another 9-11, as opposed to just calling a war on a whim? if we didn't invade iraq and WMD were used against us in another homeland security breach, then would you blame GW administration again for not knowing? It just stupifies me that this adminstration is being held responsible for 9-11 and then when they try to prevent another catastrophe from happening....it's a crime against humanity (your words). Do a reality check.


Now where did you get the above ideas???? - I have never expressed such ideas as I DON'T and never have held this administration responsible for 9-11 - just responsible for their choices of response to 9-11. I hold 19 individuals responsible for choosing the actions they did and whoever provided them support to accomplish their goal. Considering they were from countries other than Iraq (Egypt, UAE, Yemen and KSA) don't you find it ironic that Iraq is who we attacked????? A country with no direct ties with AQ. And WMDs weren't used against us - airplanes were. And it wasn't a country that attacked us - it was an ideology. How do you prevent something like 9-11? Hell if I know. It was such a brilliant and simple plan. Now we are a reduced to a nation scared of its own shadow. Not me personally. I think all this homeland security hype is simply a way to keep us in line with some pretty outrageous erosion of civil liberties. Seems like they are just doing something to be doing SOMETHING. But what does it accomplish. Chasing swamp gas. I was abroad from March 2003-October 2003. Looking at the USA from outside was interesting to say the least, hearing reports of color alerts, runs on duct tape etc etc. Frankly terrorists don't have to exert a bit of effort or resources to have us running helter-skelter - just say "Boo". It has mystified me that people in this country think that government somehow has the power and responsibility to keep us safe from all harms at all times, under all circumstances and then fix it instantly....kinda like how people somehow think that an inaccurate assessment of a hurricanes path is somehow "someones" fault ...hind sight being 20/20... Of all the things I could blame on GWB - 9-11 isn't one of them and neither is the flu vaccine shortage (not his fault, definitely not). I don't believe 9-11 was preventable and if the expectation that future such events are preventable 100% exists among our citizens - then we are truly pathetic. You do what is reasonable to prevent, to prepare and if events occur you make reasonable decisions to respond. Afghanistan was a reasonable response. Iraq was not. Bombing KSA, UAE, Yemen and Egypt would have been more logical (but stupid as it was the aforementioned ideology that attacked, not those nations per se, but given such logic if we HAD to attack responsible countries well it was their citizens after all.....). 9-11 was crime against humanity; Iraq is a crime against humanity, Darfur, Rawanda, the Balkans, Beslan, N. Korea....all crimes against humanity. Invading Iraq will not prevent another 9-11 - in fact in may just guarantee that there is another one. Our leaders, who send others to do the dirty work are waaaay too comfortable....I think they should squirm more...on the front seat of humvee...embedded with our troops.
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Postby Land Rover » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:10 am

Now where did you get the above ideas???? - I have never expressed such ideas as I DON'T and never have held this administration responsible for 9-11 - just responsible for their choices of response to 9-11. I hold 19 individuals responsible for choosing the actions they did and whoever provided them support to accomplish their goal. Considering they were from countries other than Iraq (Egypt, UAE, Yemen and KSA) don't you find it ironic that Iraq is who we attacked????? A country with no direct ties with AQ. And WMDs weren't used against us - airplanes were. And it wasn't a country that attacked us - it was an ideology. How do you prevent something like 9-11? Hell if I know. It was such a brilliant and simple plan. Now we are a reduced to a nation scared of its own shadow. Not me personally. I think all this homeland security hype is simply a way to keep us in line with some pretty outrageous erosion of civil liberties. Seems like they are just doing something to be doing SOMETHING. But what does it accomplish. Chasing swamp gas. I was abroad from March 2003-October 2003. Looking at the USA from outside was interesting to say the least, hearing reports of color alerts, runs on duct tape etc etc. Frankly terrorists don't have to exert a bit of effort or resources to have us running helter-skelter - just say "Boo". It has mystified me that people in this country think that government somehow has the power and responsibility to keep us safe from all harms at all times, under all circumstances and then fix it instantly....kinda like how people somehow think that an inaccurate assessment of a hurricanes path is somehow "someones" fault ...hind sight being 20/20... Of all the things I could blame on GWB - 9-11 isn't one of them and neither is the flu vaccine shortage (not his fault, definitely not). I don't believe 9-11 was preventable and if the expectation that future such events are preventable 100% exists among our citizens - then we are truly pathetic. You do what is reasonable to prevent, to prepare and if events occur you make reasonable decisions to respond. Afghanistan was a reasonable response. Iraq was not. Bombing KSA, UAE, Yemen and Egypt would have been more logical (but stupid as it was the aforementioned ideology that attacked, not those nations per se, but given such logic if we HAD to attack responsible countries well it was their citizens after all.....). 9-11 was crime against humanity; Iraq is a crime against humanity, Darfur, Rawanda, the Balkans, Beslan, N. Korea....all crimes against humanity. Invading Iraq will not prevent another 9-11 - in fact in may just guarantee that there is another one. Our leaders, who send others to do the dirty work are waaaay too comfortable....I think they should squirm more...on the front seat of humvee...embedded with our troopS
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CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? Ask yourself what has the UN done to prevent or cure any of these social ills? You put that on par with Iraq? Easy for you to say invading Iraq will not prevent another 9-11 but we will never know.

and tell me what civil liberties of yours have been quashed? I am a civil libertarian and do understand the value of my rights, but I defer to the government only, and I mean only, when the nation is threatened. I personally cannot stave off terrorists or others who seek to kill our citizens and that is precisely what I depend on our government for. Everything else, they can shove it up their ass...i pay them to protect me from being killed.

As for the troops being pawns, they are EMPLOYEES. You don't want to go to war, don't join the goddamn military.

And NPR and BBC? You call that non-mainstream media? ha ha ha.

And where exactly where you abroad that gave you this perspective? Try living in Virginia near the CIA, Langley Air Force Base, Norfolk Naval, the naval weapons station, the USCG...and on and on and on...these people aren't whining that their husbands, fathers, sons, boyfriends are going to Iraq. Many are joining because of it.

I call myself a civil libertarian because of people like you...you are so far left you have come 180 degrees and are as conservative as the people you hate... you are akin to the far right, having lost perspective in your fervor to stand on your platform condemning everything you are told to condemn.

i am just being realistic and you are fantasizing that the adminstration is wringing their hot little hands, scheming and eating racks of lamb and falling quietly asleep on full tummies.

you are silly.
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