Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

[Hitoru]

That's just made me hungry. Goat curry. Where can I find a goat curry at this time of night. Probably Edgeware Road but I can't be bothered to venture out so tinned sardines it is.

That's real weak. Have some canned kidney pie.

[Hitoru]

What would happen do if a similar armed occupation was to occur in Straya ? Disregarding the fact military grade firearms are heavily restricted there.

Fair question and I will attempt to give you a genuine answer.

Nothing. Nothing happens. The cops wait them out. They go home sooner or later - probably later. The end. (I'd imagine the local cop would subsequently visit each of them individually to talk about their firearms). They would probably get a 2 minute spot on evening news the first night then the occasional 10 second update on radio news a few times a week. The press basically wouldn't give them the time of day and I seriously doubt they would continually go out there to get inflammatory quotes from them as they know that would be unhelpful.

Our cops very rarely aim for a blaze of glory ending to these things. They wait because they know time is on their side. Especially in this situation - it wasn't a hostage situation and nobody was in immediate danger.

Gotch ya, I figured as much.
The police in the US have a severe us vs. them mentality with bully syndrome.

[ROB]

That's real weak. Have some canned kidney pie.

That sounds fucking awesome. I don't think I have ever even seen it.

[svizzerams]

This link shows the incident on the road from aerial video. Warning: does contain graphic material. It does show what occurred at the time the occupiers were apprehended.

http://www.oathkeepers.org/video-of-lav ... -released/

Good evening. My name is Greg Bretzing, and I am the Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Oregon.

We have quite a bit of information to share with you tonight concerning the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

First, I would like to confirm that as of this morning one more person left the refuge through a checkpoint. We believe there are four others who currently remain on the refuge. Since the establishment of checkpoints, a total of nine people have left the refuge. Of those, the FBI released six and arrested three.

Secondly, I would like to confirm that the FBI and Oregon State Police have narrowed the containment zones. This was done to make it more convenient for those who live and work in the immediate area of the refuge to go about their business. To this end, Highway 205 is now open in both directions.

There has been some media reporting that the situation at the refuge is resolved. That is NOT true. Again, we still believe there are occupiers on the refuge. The negotiators continue to work around the clock to talk to those four people in an effort to get them to come out peacefully.

Thirdly, we know there is quite a bit of interest related to the events as they occurred on Highway 395 on Tuesday afternoon. We know there are various versions of what occurred during this event: most inaccurate, some inflammatory. To that end, we want to do what we can to lay out an honest and unfiltered view of what happened and how it happened.

FBI agents and Oregon State Police troopers were involved in this operation. During this operation, OSP troopers utilized deadly force due to their proximity to LaVoy Finicum as the situation unfolded. Because of this, the Deschutes County Major Incident Team is conducting the outside review of the shooting per Oregon State law and established protocols. Because of that ongoing investigation, I will not be able to answer every question you have, but hopefully we will give the public some clarity as to what occurred.

At approximately 4:25 pm on Tuesday, January 26, 2016, FBI and OSP began a law enforcement action to bring into custody the people riding in two separate vehicles as they traveled between Burns and John Day. The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane. A couple of notes about the video before we watch it.

The plane is following the vehicles, and the camera sometimes pans from one vehicle to the other, a white truck in front and a Jeep in back. At other times when the vehicles are in a fixed location, the plane is flying in a pattern over that location. Because of that flight pattern, there are portions where trees obscure what is happening. The details that I am about to provide to you are based both on an analysis of this video and some ground-level observations of agents and troopers on the scene.
Because the operation lasted more than 25 minutes, we are showing you two of the most pertinent clips today. The entire unedited video from the start of the traffic stop through the surrender of all individuals will be available to the media and the general public on the FBI’s YouTube channel.
Because I am using some very specific language to describe what is happening, the entire transcript of my comments will be posted to http://www.flashalertbend.net.
I want to caution you that the video does show the shooting death of LaVoy Finicum. We realize that viewing that piece of the video will be upsetting to some people, but we feel that it is necessary to show the whole thing unedited in the interest of transparency.

The video picks up a few seconds before the FBI and OSP vehicles pull in behind the jeep, the second vehicle in line. The jeep quickly pulls to a stop while the white truck, driven by LaVoy Finicum, continues some distance up the road. Some law enforcement vehicles stay with the Jeep while others continue following the white truck. Over a period of several minutes out of camera view, the following people exit the jeep without incident:

The driver, who was not charged and will not be named
Ammon Bundy
Brian Cavalier

Looking at the white truck, about four minutes into the video, Ryan Payne exits through a back door. It’s difficult to see behind the trees, but in the lower right hand corner you can see him with his hands up being approached by the law enforcement officers and being taken into custody.

There is a period of approximately three minutes and 47 seconds where the truck sits on the road. We have edited it for time here, but it is available in the raw, unedited version on the FBI’s YouTube channel. Throughout this time, agents and troopers are providing verbal commands to the occupants to surrender. We can’t comment on what may have been going on in the truck at this time, but those details may come out later as part of the overall shooting investigation.

When we come back to the video, the white truck leaves the scene at a high rate of speed. It travels some distance, quickly approaching a vehicle roadblock in the roadway.

As the white truck approaches the roadblock, there is a spike strip across the road but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank.

Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.

At this time, OSP troopers shot Finicum.

Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.

Over a period of several minutes agents and troopers worked to safely remove the remaining truck occupants, and to take them into custody. Those people included:

Ryan Bundy
Shawna Cox
And another woman, who was not arrested and will not be named

As soon as the agents and troopers were confident that they had addressed any further threats, they provided medical assistance to Finicum. That happened about 10 minutes after the shooting.

Agents and troopers did find three other loaded weapons inside the truck. They included two loaded .223 caliber semi-automatic rifles. There was also one loaded .38 special revolver.

Again, you can see the rest of this unedited video on the FBI’s YouTube channel.

Finally, again, I want to acknowledge the stress and disruption that the occupation of the refuge has caused has to the people of Harney County. We know this is difficult. We know that you want this concluded as soon as possible. We are doing everything we can to bring this to a resolution safely and quickly.

I have time for a few questions.

[ROB]

The police in the US have a severe us vs. them mentality with bully syndrome.

From the outside looking in, it certainly looks like the press throw fuel on the fire and that the public lap it up.

I mean, look on this thread. You have several people actually WANTING violence to "end" the situation. The fact that an "end" is needed isn't even questioned.

To me that seems like a combination of how the situation was framed by the media in combination with laziness of thought from those people who lap it up.

[ROB]

It is apparent that the UK is devoid of this sort of crazy. I'd rather send them to remedial civic classes.

Nowhere is devoid of it. It's just that a lot of places choose not to throw fuel on the fire.

[Bronco]

In case anybody cares, this is the place: http://www.fws.gov/refuge/malheur/
The preserve is 293.37 sq mi (760 km2) For you city dwellers, that's big.
Harney County has an Area of 10,226 mi²
for comparison's sake, the State of Maryland is smaller at 9,774 mi²

[nowonmai]

Never fails to miss the point and still not getting the fact that high fiving at the deaths of people, the Fuck Yeah equivalent of the ululating burqa, is the issue, not the detailed circumstances of the shoot. Those mental faculties have not improved with the passing of the years.

As for canned kidney pie, I did have something similar in the cupboard but who wants to wait 25 minutes for something to cook. I have had them cold but it's a bit nasty like that.



The alternative to that would be the ultimate stand by for a post pub snack, Stagg Chilli, which is much more bearable cold and a cursory search tells me has got into the American and Australian markets so you redneck bogans should have heard of that.

[friendlyskies]

The police in the US have a severe us vs. them mentality with bully syndrome.

From the outside looking in, it certainly looks like the press throw fuel on the fire and that the public lap it up.

I mean, look on this thread. You have several people actually WANTING violence to "end" the situation. The fact that an "end" is needed isn't even questioned.

To me that seems like a combination of how the situation was framed by the media in combination with laziness of thought from those people who lap it up.

It sucks, but if you've ever taken a civil disobedience course, you know that there are situations where a cop has the "right" to shoot or hit you.

For instance, you never ever show up to a protest with guns, because that gives cops a legal right to shoot you. You don't threaten the cops and tell them you're going to kill them, because ditto. Especially not on video! That's just handing them evidence. You don't steal government vehicles and go joy riding, because that's grand theft. Law enforcement could have killed the guy at Safeway and still have their jobs, because laws.

I'm not trying to applaud dude's death, but these guys did everything wrong. For instance, in a protest occupying a federal building - and I've done that myself, I organized a protest where we occupied the building that designed fiber optics systems for patriot missiles at the University of New Mexico - you know going in that the cops are going to come get you. That is their job. You're breaking the law, you're interfering with people doing legal stuff, etc. But, you're willing to break the law, and risk getting arrested, hurt, or killed, because the law is unjust.

That's Civil Disobedience 101.

The stated goal in our case was to draw attention to the injustice in the war on Iraqi civilians, and stop UNM from actively participating. The stated goal in the Oregon militia's case was to have an armed revolution against tyranny, I guess? And give BLM lands to private ranchers to use however they wanted? Maybe? Who knows. The original message, that the BLM had deliberately mis-used the Patriot Act to jail a couple of basically innocent men, was lost. Why? Because they broke every rule of civil disobedience and the government took full advantage of that. They may not control the press, but they fed the press negative stories and, surprise surprise, they got published, and the thought of a bunch of armed rednecks trying to take our land away so they can have mining and oil wells and cattle farms became the narrative.

But I digress. When the cops come in to remove you, you go limp so that they have to carry you out, which gives the media time and footage so they can air your story in a more advertising-friendly format. If, when you go limp, you accidentally touch a police officer, say, bonk his shoe with your arm, that is legally considered assault on a cop and you've just given him the right to beat, shoot, arrest, or sue you. So you have to be really careful not to touch his shoe.

That's not what Finicum did when the cops decided to do their job. He didn't go limp. He reached for a loaded gun.

[Hitoru]

Agreed.
But you know a lot cops are official oppressors.

[coldharvest]

Agreed.
But you know a lot cops are official oppressors.

Right on

[svizzerams]

It is apparent that the UK is devoid of this sort of crazy. I'd rather send them to remedial civic classes.

Nowhere is devoid of it. It's just that a lot of places choose not to throw fuel on the fire.

A lot of the "media" that was available to the public came directly from the occupiers themselves, particularly Pete Santilli. They built the fire and they tossed on the fuel...again and again. Anyone who wants to make a documentary of this event won't have to do any filming or interviewing of participants - they put it all out there for the whole world to see. They filmed and broadcasted images and statements providing ample incriminating evidence of themselves breaking the law - over and over again. At times it was so over the top it was pure comedy gold - Jon Ritzheimer sweeping donated sex toys off a table, pleas for snacks, lists of supplies which included french vanilla creamer (although shouldn't they have called it freedom vanilla creamer). Big pink sumo wrestler man was the pinnacle of the ridiculousness, followed by fat man screeching at the camera "we're all going to die" while someone ineptly operates an excavator in the background. They are the keystone cops of militias.

[friendlyskies]

Agreed.
But you know a lot cops are official oppressors.

Yes, but that's the point of civil disobedience. This photo is why Bernie Sanders has a half-decent shot at the presidency:



That one photo convinced people who were passively buying into the government's narrative about Occupy Wall Street—basically, they were a bunch of unwashed trustafarians who wanted free stuff from the government—to take a closer look at why protesters were willing to suffer at the hands of oppressive police, just to boost the signal of a message. Which, as you probably know (thanks to the photo), went way beyond demanding free stuff. Sure, a lot of people continued to believe the official narrative, because it was compelling, fit in with their personal stories, and made them feel good about themselves. But you don't need everyone, just a critical mass.

The Oregon militia types had a point, even though I disagreed with most of it, and also had a fairly good plan. But they botched it royally, pretty much from day one. Speaking as an experienced protester, my money says that they have a couple of undercover cops in their midst, fucking everything up. And my guess is that the most effective one has been this guy:



Why? Because he has been the source of the most belittle-able Internet media, plus he's in a leadership position where he could influence the others to make all these terrible decisions. Decisions that teenager who has been through a four-hour course on civil disobedience would know not to make. Seriously, why call attention to the fact that people are sending you bags of dicks? That was stupid, it handed the narrative to the enemy.

But whatever, I don't have a crystal ball. The result is the same. A crazy guy is dead, two innocent men are in jail for the next four years, and the Patriot Act can still be used by the BLM to prosecute people they don't like. On the upside, the right-wing militia movement has been set back half a decade, thanks to these guys. #winning

[svizzerams]

This was my favorite act of civil disobedience in the PNW in 2015 - 13 protesters rappelled from the St. Johns Bridge over the Willamette River and hung from the bridge for almost 40 hours in an attempt to block Royal Dutch Shell's icebreaker MSV Fennica — which stopped in Portland for repairs — from returning to sea.



Kayaktavists!!!!! Blocking the Shell drilling rig from leaving the harbor in Seattle headed to the Chukchi Sea. Having lived in Kotzebue on the shores of the Chukchi Sea I can tell you that is a perilous location to drill for oil.



They brought paddles - but did not bring gunz and ammoe - and probably sourced their own snacks.

[nowonmai]

Agreed.
But you know a lot cops are official oppressors.

Give chimps a little power and some of them will abuse it. This board has provided plenty of evidence of that, usually from the chimps wearing smiles and clapping loudly.