Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby Bronco » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:34 am

Currently, there are four people holding out at the Malheur Refuge. Two or three of them have records of being "trouble makers" in their own states. All of them are breaking the law by being there. They have said they won't leave until they are assured they won't be charged or arrested. They are supposedly taking the same position of being willing to die there rather than "give up". At the moment the FBI, State Police and local Sheriff are all waiting for the four to run out of booze, pot, french vanilla creamer and what other necessities they may need.

Now it's time for you second guessers to tell everyone what the FBI, State Police and local Sheriff are supposed to be doing. They're letting the four squatters sit and they're patiently waiting. Meanwhile, the charges are adding up. The cost of housing and feeding the police forces and the cost to the Refuge for paying their non-working employees who can't go to work because of all this, are all adding up at several thousand dollars a day. Those four are probably going to opt to commit 'suicide by police' rather than go to prison or shell out the money they'd have to come up with. They're screwed and it's all their own fault. They could have left right after LaVoy Finicum got shot but they didn't. So, what do YOU think the players should do next? You've been plenty outspoken about where everyone went wrong so what's the right thing to do? Let's hear your plan.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:11 am

Let's break down how retarded this is.

You're basically asking us, "Guys, how do I not kill somebody?"

I mean for fuck sake, I'll go into specifics if you like, but damn.

Bronco wrote:Now it's time for you second guessers to tell everyone what the FBI, State Police and local Sheriff are supposed to be doing.


You said it yourself - 4 guys.

Ask yourself why 4 guys in a hut requires 3 separate strata of law enforcement to even be present, let alone monitor 24/7. (Hint: It doesn't. Send 2 strata home and let the local sherif deal with it. Even having the others there unnecessarily escalates the situation.)

They're letting the four squatters sit and they're patiently waiting.


At least someone is being sensible at some point then.

Meanwhile, the charges are adding up.


Who gives a shit? Let them pile up. It's meaningless when we're literally talking about a person's death as the alternative to minor charges (What? trespassing? property destruction? threats? None deserve a death sentence - not even close).

The cost of housing and feeding the police forces


Existed last week and will exist next week, regardless of what 4 rednecks are doing. If they're honestly paying extra to house and feed the extra cops, then see point one about sending the majority of them home.

and the cost to the Refuge for paying their non-working employees who can't go to work because of all this


There's literally not an alternative building they can work from temporarily? Sorry, I'm just not buying that. Here's a list of cheap space they could temporarily lease less than 3 miles away. (And it's cheap as fuck by the way) http://commercialsearch.realtor.com/com ... ite_nevada

Those four are probably going to opt to commit 'suicide by police' rather than go to prison or shell out the money they'd have to come up with.


The police could choose to... you know... not shoot them. Deescalate each situation. Leave when it's getting tense. Any one of a thousand ways for this not to happen. Ask the UK police how, if you like. They only shot 3 people all of last year.

They're screwed and it's all their own fault.


And they'll be even more screwed when they get hungry and go home. Each to their own home. Separately. After the have calmed down. And had a cup of tea. Hanging out in a hut with no water, food, power etc gets tedious after a while.

So, what do YOU think the players should do next?


Not be sucked into the American false paradigm of a final showdown.

Go home. Get some sleep. Fuck their wives. Wait for the rednecks to do the same. Ask the media to do the same. Approach them individually. 18 months from now. When they're unarmed and shopping at Kmart for some bbq utensils.

That way, nobody dies.

I doubt the press will let that happen. And I doubt non thinking people who suck up sensational media such as yourself even consider it an alternative.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:21 am

I hope you guys realise that from now on, it's going to be brought up continually on this board that you (friendly, svizz, bronco) advocated for the deaths of some protestors. You actively advocated escalating a dangerous situation instead of deescalating it.

I mean, shit. I am kind of gobsmacked to be honest.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby Bronco » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:58 am

I don't want anybody to get shot, but carrying around weapons and saying things like they're willing to fight to the death is not a good start to a peaceful resolution. Frankly, all I want is for them to go home. Now. They'd be charged for the cost of the damage and trouble they've caused and have to pay some fines, maybe they'll get some jail or prison time, but it's their option to just walk out or not. I don't think it would turn out any differently in another country. In many countries they'd already be dead.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:27 am

Alternatively, turn off Fox and CNN.

They're hurting your blood pressure. All over nothing.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:29 am

Bronco wrote:In many countries they'd already be dead.


Not countries I'd ever be happy for mine to be associated with.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby Bronco » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:26 pm

State Police are there because it's in Oregon. FBI is there because it's Federal Property. Local Sheriff is there because Burns and Harney County is his domain to protect. I think they've all shown great restraint. The people who were inside the Refuge were well armed and had threatened to shoot their way out. They went so far as to follow the employees who worked at the Refuge to their homes in an effort to intimidate them. That was interpreted as a threat. You say that everybody should just go home and let this whole thing blow over, so you think just letting people break laws and threaten people is OK? It's the job of the police forces to get them out of the Refuge, if the occupiers resist they escalate the whole thing. You said you think they should all go home. Is that justice? Just let people break the law and go home after they threaten to shoot the police who try to arrest them?

Rob said "You're basically asking us, "Guys, how do I not kill somebody?""
No, I'm saying that you haven't offered any ideas about how to go about dealing with this situation. You've been quick to blame, but you have offered no solutions.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby svizzerams » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:36 pm

ROB wrote:I hope you guys realise that from now on, it's going to be brought up continually on this board that you (friendly, svizz, bronco) advocated for the deaths of some protestors. You actively advocated escalating a dangerous situation instead of deescalating it.

I mean, shit. I am kind of gobsmacked to be honest.


Dec 15, 2014 this incident occurred in Sydney: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30485355

The cops didn't even wait 24 hours to go in to stop this and 2 people died +1 gunman, and 4 injured. Maybe your commandos should have used more restraint. Our cops waited 25 days to give these domestic armed terrorists (who are part of well known anti-government militia groups that spawned the likes of the Oklahoma bomber, Timothy McVey, who killed a 168 people) every opportunity to give up their occupation. The strategy to end this operation on an isolated a country road, with a traffic stop to nab the criminals when they were all together in one place and not around those who would have been collateral damage if they sent in commandos to storm the refuge compound. The only fatality was the individual, known to be armed at all times, who did a runner from that roadblock, didn't stay in the vehicle, but jumped out screaming "just shoot me". This was sad, unfortunate and unnecessary but Mr. Finicum brought it on himself, by his own choices. These guys were not simple protesters. Individuals in the group made threats verbal and physical against townspeople; the schools and all government locations were shut down not just on the refuge, but in the towns of Burns and Hines. They basically held people hostage. The biggest threat of terrorism that has been identified by US officials in this country isn't Islamic terrorists but homegrown anti-government, right wing terrorists - these guys. There is a lot of information out there on this topic if you wish to investigate these movements in the US.

Two people died, along with an Islamist gunman, after commandos stormed a cafe in Sydney, Australia, to bring to an end a 16-hour siege.

Local media have named those who died as Lindt cafe manager Tori Johnson, 34 and lawyer Katrina Dawson, 38.

Four people were injured, including a policeman hit by shotgun pellets.

Central Sydney was put in lockdown as the gunman, identified as an Iranian refugee, seized dozens of hostages early on Monday.

The Lindt Chocolat Cafe is located in Martin Place, a busy shopping area in Sydney's financial district.

The gunman, named as Man Haron Monis, forced some of the hostages to hold up a black Islamic banner at the window of the cafe.

Monis received political asylum in Australia in 1996 and was on bail facing a number of charges.


The irony of these guys is exemplified in this photo from our holocaust of a summer in which we lost over 500,000 acres to wildfires in my county and the one just north, where I grew up. These guys live in these remote areas, hating the government, until they need the government fire crews, tankers, DC-10 and other retardant aircraft, water drop planes and helicopters, government funds to provide for feed for their animals, loans/grants to rebuild their homes etc etc etc. Some fire crews were confronted with armed people not wanting them to go across their lands to fight these fires. So the man's t-shirt speaks volumes. You aren't here - so I guess you can't fathom the context in which we deal with these cranks. So be it. We'll agree to disagree.

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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby nowonmai » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:58 pm

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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:00 am

Bronco wrote:State Police are there because it's in Oregon. FBI is there because it's Federal Property. Local Sheriff is there because Burns and Harney County is his domain to protect. I think they've all shown great restraint. The people who were inside the Refuge were well armed and had threatened to shoot their way out. They went so far as to follow the employees who worked at the Refuge to their homes in an effort to intimidate them. That was interpreted as a threat.


Tell me, what other nasty nasty things did the bad men say that hurt your feelings?

Must be pretty hurtful words for you to advocate their state sanctioned murder.

You say that everybody should just go home and let this whole thing blow over


Read it again. You clearly didn't the first time.

so you think just letting people break laws and threaten people is OK?


Don't throw tedious straw men at me. Makes you look half witted.

Just let people break the law and go home after they threaten to shoot the police who try to arrest them?


I also said arrest them individually in 18 months when the immediately dangerous situation has deescalated. You really can be tedious.

No, I'm saying that you haven't offered any ideas about how to go about dealing with this situation. You've been quick to blame, but you have offered no solutions.


Read it again. I offered several. Probably pretty close to how the situation would be handled in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, Ireland, German, France etc etc. The fact that you think it's unworkable shows you're either ignorant or bigoted. Which one is it?
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:02 am

svizzerams wrote:after commandos stormed a cafe in Sydney, Australia, to bring to an end a 16-hour siege.


Sydney was a HOSTAGE SITUATION. Yours is NOT. Nobody is in IMMEDIATE DANGER.

Christ on a bike, it's like you're actually trying to miss the point.

But by all means, keep advocating for state sanctioned murder. I am sure your grandkids will be proud.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:03 am

I honestly used to think Nowonmai was wrong about you guys and how you'd be quite happy to see people oppressed who opposed your views.

Boy was I wrong.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby svizzerams » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:46 pm

ROB wrote:
svizzerams wrote:after commandos stormed a cafe in Sydney, Australia, to bring to an end a 16-hour siege.


Sydney was a HOSTAGE SITUATION. Yours is NOT. Nobody is in IMMEDIATE DANGER.

Christ on a bike, it's like you're actually trying to miss the point.

But by all means, keep advocating for state sanctioned murder. I am sure your grandkids will be proud.


The occupiers kept a whole county hostage to their demands, as well as issuing a call for more armed participants to arrive and were justly apprehended while intending to spread their sedition to a 2nd county. LaVoy was shot due to his own stupidity. I'm reasonably well versed in the context of the situation - I live in the middle of it.
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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby ROB » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:47 pm

svizzerams wrote:The OCCUPIERS kept a WHOLE COUNTRY HOSTAGE to their demands, as well as issuing a call for more ARMED participants to arrive and were JUSTLY apprehended while intending to spread their SEDITION to a 2nd county.



I mean, look at your inflated rhetoric.

4 dumb rednecks in a country hut and you're trying to write the opening scene to Patton the Musical.

Get. A. Grip.

If everyone had toned down their feelies from the beginning, if the press had basically ignored a couple of dumb rednecks, if the FBI, CIA, State Troopers, Army, Airforce, Navy, NASA, Girl Scouts of America and Granny Kimpton's Pie Company had all remained calm and decided to let the locals deal with things then it could very well have been DEESCALATED.

Instead people like you have escalated the situation into a last stand scenario and given these idiots exactly what they wanted - attention.

I'm reasonably well versed in the context of the situation - I live in the middle of it.


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Re: Speaking of dumbasses: Sagebrush Rebellion Part deux

Postby flipflop » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:29 pm

That looks like a whole new logical fallacy - 'Argument from proximity'

This place sure got a whole lot dumber since last time I trolled it

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