America Spring? Let's do this

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America Spring? Let's do this

Postby RYP » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:55 pm

Bet's on the table on whether the despondent Hillary crowd will morph into anything more than angry selfies and black avatars. I say if Trump doesn't fill the void the disgraced media and half of the country will come up with a social disobedience scam that might work.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby Kurt » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:27 pm

The Progressives need to stop being nice and assuming the dems have their best interest or even any interest at all in them.

They need to make the dems fear not having a progressive agenda. No Neo-conservativism abroad and no Neo-liberalism at home. (In the US only 2 Billionaires did not support Clinton, Trump and Thiel and its questionable whether Trump actually is a Billionaire)

The one I snap back at is when someone says I have "hindsight" after this election. When actually I and many other people from progressive left to Libertarian Right saw the disaster that was having Hillary run for anything at all.

Another thing people need to adopt is the Motto "Always Exclude Clintons", I wonder how many corporate Board of Directors offers were withdrawn for Chelsea Clinton yesterday? I most of them, if they are smart they would withdraw all of them.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby snaark » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:15 pm

Kurt wrote:They need to make the dems fear not having a progressive agenda.


Wasn't Obama supposed to have one of those?

But yeah, its time for real liberals to stop trying to understand people like Trump and their supporters. It's nauseating seeing everyone who's been shit-talking him for the last year now giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet he gets impeached before he reaches the half-way point. He has way too much baggage and no support from his own party.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby Kurt » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:06 am

snaark wrote:
Kurt wrote:They need to make the dems fear not having a progressive agenda.


Wasn't Obama supposed to have one of those?

But yeah, its time for real liberals to stop trying to understand people like Trump and their supporters. It's nauseating seeing everyone who's been shit-talking him for the last year now giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet he gets impeached before he reaches the half-way point. He has way too much baggage and no support from his own party.


He wont get impeached. Trump is a bullshitter. Clinton is a liar. Bullshitters bluster and then act as if they did not say something. Liars say one thing and then do another.

Obama did get carried by the Progressives in 2008. The problem is they always settle. At least Obama, bailer out-er of Wall Street, was not Romney since he might not veto a ban on Abortion.

They have to take a chapter from the Right Wing and the Tea Party: Go moderate on us and you will lose. Even if they lose a few times eventually they will get to their fighting weight and start winning.

Sanders missed a moment by declining Jill Stein's invitation to run for the Greens instead of her. He's an older guy. He played by the rules and the rules said if you run for a party's nomination and you lose, you concede and don't jump to another party...But obviously that gentleman's game cannot be played anymore.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby denise » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:25 am

It's just the apparently never ending swing of the American pendulum...

I'm not rich enough or poor enough to benefit one way or the other so I just buy into and pay for it....

same as it ever was.

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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ROB » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:39 am

Kurt wrote:Sanders missed a moment by declining Jill Stein's invitation to run for the Greens instead of her.


Missed his moment to lose big and ban himself from another possible shot at the nomination.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby flipflop » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:23 am

Sanders is too old, chances are he'll be dead by 2020. He had his chance and he blew it.

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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ROB » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:35 am

Nothing makes you young again like the chance of a blowy in the oval office.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby flipflop » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:28 pm

Haha, not if it's Madonna who's giving it

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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ROB » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm

Meh. A few ales...
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby Kurt » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:30 pm

ROB wrote:
Kurt wrote:Sanders missed a moment by declining Jill Stein's invitation to run for the Greens instead of her.


Missed his moment to lose big and ban himself from another possible shot at the nomination.


Yep, he's older than Clinton so what did he have to lose? Worst case scenario is he would have taken votes away from Clinton and Trump would have won.

Good thing that did not happen, that would have embarrassed him.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ROB » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:56 pm

Kurt wrote:Yep, he's older than Clinton so what did he have to lose? Worst case scenario is he would have taken votes away from Clinton and Trump would have won.


There's a lot of things you can call Sanders, but I don't think selfish is really one of them. I don't think he ever wanted to be the guy to hand Trump the election.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby Kurt » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:03 am

ROB wrote:
Kurt wrote:Yep, he's older than Clinton so what did he have to lose? Worst case scenario is he would have taken votes away from Clinton and Trump would have won.


There's a lot of things you can call Sanders, but I don't think selfish is really one of them. I don't think he ever wanted to be the guy to hand Trump the election.


You say that like a Trump win was inevitable. The way I see it, is that very few pollsters called Trump's win correctly, and I bet those same people predicted the defeat of Sanders as well (and Brexit). Also those wrong pollsters speculating that America would never elect a Socialist probably also thought no black man would be elected president in the US.

Also, the same pollsters say the economy is awesome with thousands of new jobs added this quarter, but most people, many of them Trump and Sanders supporters do not see this where they live so they assume it is a lie.

Anyone who assumes anything about American politics now is going to be wrong.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ROB » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:51 am

Rubbish. Yep, the pollsters got it very wrong. Once.

But 538 (for example) literally called every polling station correctly for the last 2 elections. (Not forgetting that they also still gave Trump a 1 in 3 chance on the morning of the election so still very much a chance).

So obviously something about what they do is also right.

Now what they do, is go back to the drawing board, figure out why their data was wrong and correct their methodology.

This is how intelligent, rational people improve things.

Sure, it doesn't always work. But it works most of the time and will normally produce increasingly accurate outcomes.

You don't just throw the whole fucking lot out.

And let's not forget. Literally a 1% change in voting and we would have been talking about President Hillary.

And yeah, Trump's win would have been far more likely if Sanders had taken Sandtards' votes to a third party.
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Re: America Spring? Let's do this

Postby ReptilianKittenEater » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:58 am

Kurt wrote:Also, the same pollsters say the economy is awesome with thousands of new jobs added this quarter, but most people, many of them Trump and Sanders supporters do not see this where they live so they assume it is a lie.

Anyone who assumes anything about American politics now is going to be wrong.


That's a big part of it I think. I heard a figure that the US lost something like 5 million manufacturing jobs in the last 10 years. Canada has lost an even larger percentage of manufacturing jobs likely.

The thing is, its no secret. Well paying manufacturing jobs have been lost to technology or moved offshore. Mainly shitty jobs at Walmart have replaced them. Its been going on for decades yet neither party has done fuck all about it. So Trump comes along and pts it in his platform. Maybe he won't be successful, but its better than nothing.

I live in what used to be a major manufacturing area. Companies like Heinz, Caterpillar, John Deere, Kelloggs, Hersheys etc have all pulled out, mainly back to the US to placate enrage workers.

I am kind of interested in what happened tot the Hispanic and Black votes though. Perhaps many Hispanics that are legally here don't appreciate the illegal immigrants. And maybe the lot of alot of blacks have not really improved under Obama. So they simply did not show up at the polls.
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