US refuses to allow Red Crescent to distribute aid

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Postby Penta » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:33 pm

Reuters on Sunday:

U.S. Military Says Iraqi Aid Not Needed in Falluja
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:44 AM ET

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - The U.S. military said on Sunday it saw no need for the Iraqi Red Crescent to deliver aid to people inside Falluja and said it did not think any Iraqi civilians were trapped inside the city.
"There is no need to bring (Red Crescent) supplies in because we have supplies of our own for the people," said U.S. Marine Colonel Mike Shupp.

"Now that the bridge (into Falluja) is open I will bring out casualties and all aid work can be done here (at Falluja's hospital)."

He said he had not heard of any Iraqi civilians being trapped inside the city and did not think that was the case.

The Iraqi Red Crescent believes at least 150 families are trapped inside Falluja and that many of those people are in desperate need of food, blankets, water and medicine.

Some residents still inside the city, contacted by Reuters on Sunday, said their children were suffering from diarrhea and had not eaten for several days.

Asked what he intended to do about families and other non-combatants trapped inside the city, Shupp said:

"I don't think that is the case. I haven't heard that myself and the Iraqi soldiers didn't tell me about that. We want to help them as much as we can. We are on the radio broadcast telling them how to come out and how to come up to coalition forces."

The Red Crescent has sent a convoy of seven aid trucks and ambulances to Falluja, but it has been stopped at the city's main hospital, on the west bank of the Euphrates river, away from the city proper.

There is almost no one at the hospital for doctors to treat because most residents still in the city were too scared to leave their homes during the fighting. The Red Crescent has said the only effective way it can help them is to go into the city.

Falluja's normal population is about 300,000 and about half are thought to have fled before the main U.S.-led assault on insurgents in the city began on Monday.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Copyright Reuters 2004

Interesting that Reuters is reporting that 'about half' are thought to have fled. Others are saying 70-80%. Us military saying 90%.

Edited: changed 'spread' in line above, which I'd typed for no reason I can think of, to the intended 'fled'.
Last edited by Penta on Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vincent » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:15 am

I will completely concede the facts to you. However, I do feel your first post was disingenuous.

On the facts, I can't dispute what you've posted and think the situation is terrible.
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blah

Postby SRR » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:44 am

The only point I was trying to make is that all reporting from Iraq is disingenuous. Furthermore splicing articles from that pool to support your own agenda is even more disingenuous.
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Re: blah

Postby GeneTherapy » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:41 am

SRR wrote:The only point I was trying to make is that all reporting from Iraq is disingenuous.


Versus all reporting from where? Washington DC? Ivory Coast? Caracas?

If you distrust all journalists, then OK, but that sounds like your particular outlook on the world.
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Re: blah

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:56 am

GeneTherapy wrote:
SRR wrote:The only point I was trying to make is that all reporting from Iraq is disingenuous.


Versus all reporting from where? Washington DC? Ivory Coast? Caracas?

If you distrust all journalists, then OK, but that sounds like your particular outlook on the world.



SRR disbelieves all journalists in Iraq, but he belives Billy.
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Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:02 am

Penta wrote:No, but I'm sure Bobby Sands could find it. There were accounts by a woman called Jo Wilding and someone called Dave, I think.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 653223.stm
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Postby Dim » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:17 am

Actually I think SRR is probably right. Almost the only people reporting right now are Iraqi stringers (who are somewhat less than detached and impatial about the US de-populating and destroying an entire city to enable it to vote in eight weeks) and the embed units ('US Marines bravely fight back against a snipers nest of islamic terrorists, possibly linked to AL QUAIDA!')

So who knows what's happening.
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Well

Postby SRR » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:43 am

I'll believe Billy long before I believe someone whose initials are "bs"and can't provide anything except a bunch of internet articles culled from their favourite news sites(but of course, only when they support their opinion). But hey, that's just me - besides I think we had this discussion before and bs declared herself the 'winner' and pranced around with her panties still in a knot, so there's no need to argue. In fact these two come across quite much like Shining Eye and his ilk except on the opposing end of the spectrum, however some may tell you the spectrum is in fact a circle. Instead of alarmist anti-muslim pro-US they're alarmist anti-US pro-muslim.

When I hear about US soldiers denying aid workers access to places or shooting up some poor family I don't automatically assume it's more fodder for the cause celebre to prove that hey, they're the Great Satan!!! Down with the evil Imperialists!

What I do try and do is understand some reasons why they may be doing this. No American soldier is going to be denying aid workers access to people in need without good reason or higher orders; it does - not- indicate that they are all purely evil beings of darkness who are required to feed off the blood of babies to stay alive for another day.

And Gene, Iraq is where all of the wannabes are going these days. No one cares about Africa, therefore, there is no real interest in sending out piles of journos to find the crying-woman stories. But really, what have we learned from Ivory Coast anyways? A few blown up planes, some press statements from the president and lots of photos of angry black people and white expats boarding aircraft? Wow, are we ever enlightened on the place.

Given that the Guardian doesn't even know that Fallujah is west of Baghdad and not north(and according to Penta, that's from one of their native Iraqi writers!), we're not in good hands for being informed on what's happening. And before I get dragged into the whole 'journos vs. on-the-ground-people-who-just-want-to-share' argument yet again I'll shut my trap and try to ignore Penta and bs's anti-US manifesto threads.

Funny how I've come across as being fervently pro-invasion beside these two people simply because I have the nerve to question news reports coming out of them. Religious worship of the Guardian is definitely not a good thing.
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Re: Well

Postby Bobby Sands » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:26 am

SRR wrote:I'll believe Billy....


Which is what I said: "SRR disbelieves all journalists in Iraq, but he belives Billy."


SRR wrote:Instead of alarmist anti-muslim pro-US they're alarmist anti-US pro-muslim.


It must be soothing to understand the world as two-dimensional. It is not "anti-US" to criticize unnecessary wars and the killing of civilians. Nor is it "pro-Muslim" (maybe you meant "pro-Iraqi"?) to criticize unnecessary wars and the killing of civilians.
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Postby Penta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:47 am

Vincent wrote:I will completely concede the facts to you.


Thank you. One thing I would change: I probably should have written in my response to you and SRR
"These little nuggets of what really may be going on ..."
instead of "These little nuggets of what is really going on ..."
because we still don't really know, and may never.

That, I think, is the point. They don't want us to know. Possibly because there's been a massacre, or because far more Humvees, tanks or whatever have been destroyed than they care to admit, or any number of other possibilities. As far as I can tell, they are still not letting in independent reporters.
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Postby Penta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:59 am

SRR wrote:Religious worship of the Guardian is definitely not a good thing.


Considering the articles I posted were from the BBC, plus my report of what I had just seen on Channel 4 News (TV), this is ridiculous.

Given that the Guardian doesn't even know that Fallujah is west of Baghdad and not north

And this isn't true either. They were talking about other cities north of Baghdad as I demonstrated before. SRR obviously has some difficulty reading English, shown again by his misreading my original post on this thread.
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