WHERE ARE THE INSURGENT CORPSES?

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Postby Dim » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:18 pm

Actually this is a little creepy. The background to the story is that the FBI and Justice are investigating Haliburton for a rich variety of crimes, including bribery, fraud and contract irregularities in Iraq and Kuwait. They're also being charged with doing business in Iran in violation of US sanctions.

Most of these things happened under Cheneys watch.

The response of the White House and the GOP lackeys - Rush, O'Reilly ect - is to try and make light of the scandal by claiming it's all a wild conspiracy theory: one that, presumably, Justice, FBI and Haliburtons own SEC auditors are in on.

This seems to be the Bush regimes now standard response to embarrasing stories (when asked why dozens of photographs clearly showed that the president was wearing a large rectangular device under his jacket during the debates he joked that he was recieving transmissions from another planet).

What's creepy is the way Tarkan and Goat Balls have obediently picked up the GOP talking points and started parroting them, evidently of their own free will.

Weird.
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Postby Tarkan » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:29 pm

Huh? I'm not parroting the GOP's talking points when it comes to Halliburton. If they broke the law, or if officers of the corp broke the law, fry em.

What I did do a while back is point out that there are only a few companies in the same market space as Halliburton capable of doing what Halliburton does. And they are either French, Chinese, or Russian companies...and it isn't likely or smart for the US to reward corporations of countries that opposed the war with multibillion dollar contracts.
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Postby goat balls » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:36 pm

Quote:

What's creepy is the way Tarkan and Goat Balls have obediently picked up the GOP talking points and started parroting them, evidently of their own free will.


Uh...like you don't use the democrats talking points, evidently of your own free will? Hence my poke at Haliburton.
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Postby Moosehead » Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:39 pm

this is a Monty Python dead parrot situation with all the civilian dead. why can't it be like that with the insurgents?




Mr. Praline: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Owner: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

Mr. Praline: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

Owner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

Mr. Praline: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you
show...

(owner hits the cage)

Owner: There, he moved!

Mr. Praline: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!

Owner: I never!!

Mr. Praline: Yes, you did!

Owner: I never, never did anything...

Mr. Praline: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

(Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

Mr. Praline: Now that's what I call a dead parrot.

Owner: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!

Mr. Praline: STUNNED?!?

Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.

Mr. Praline: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour
ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

Owner: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.

Mr. Praline: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?

Owner: The Norwegian Blue prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!

Mr. Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the
first place was that it had been NAILED there.

etc. etc.




just mix up the names with white house talking heads and you are right there. instant press release!
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Postby Penta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:09 pm

Aaah. Thanks.
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Postby Prodigal Son » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:27 pm

Oh yeah. Guess what. Fallujah had a population of 500,000 people. 1600 bodies aren't going leave that many streets littered.


Uh, actually the population was around 250,000 to 300,000 and by your logic the "scores" of enemy dead littering the streets (if the reports are accurate) are quite likely civillian casualties, not insurgents. If 1,600 isn't going to litter the streets, but many reports are saying streets are "choked" with dead then that implies these "rivers" of dead are civilians, right?

Plus, the picture you so nicely provided tells us nothing except the folks on the ground are, well, dead. As far as I can tell they are equally likely to be civilians as insurgents.

Of course, maybe they eat their dead as well as worship an evil god.

:-)

Or Haliburtion is selling their organs on the black market.
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Postby Aegis » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:02 pm

I seem to remember in Anthony Lloyd's "My War Gone By: I Miss it So," the story of a serb militiaman killed by UN peacekeepers in the act of attacking an aid convoy.

Before any sort of graves registration unit could come through the man's family hid his Kalashnikov and changed his clothes. At the time of print the man's father was pressing suit against the UN in hopes of reparations.

I imagine that with weapons being of value, and since many of the insurgents would not have been wearing any sort of uniform, that surviving insurgents may have retrieved many of the weapons that were man-portable, leaving us with a good mix of insurgent and civilian corpses, but no way to differentiate the two.
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Postby Penta » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:08 pm

I think we can assume that the figures of 1200 to 1600 dead 'insurgents' will be made up of any dead Iraqi males between 15 and 55. And the same goes for the prisoners.

We can also assume that only the men among the civilians will have ventured out of their houses on to the streets to try to find food or water, or to bring inside anybody wounded they wanted to try to help.
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Postby Tarkan » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:41 pm

Penta wrote:I think we can assume that the figures of 1200 to 1600 dead 'insurgents' will be made up of any dead Iraqi males between 15 and 55. And the same goes for the prisoners.

We can also assume that only the men among the civilians will have ventured out of their houses on to the streets to try to find food or water, or to bring inside anybody wounded they wanted to try to help.


I suppose you think the 38 US troops that have died then during the Fallujah campaign were all killed by friendly fire while they were otherwise massacring the peaceful Fallujah men who were just happening to go find food and water for their family.

Sometimes you really are ridiculous Penta. Ok, make that like all the time. But still. You would think, being an academic, that some rigors of logic might've seeped into that brain of yours.
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Postby Penta » Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:02 am

Tell me how you would distinguish between a dead unarmed combatant and a dead unarmed civilian then, Tarkan.

Why would they consider any man or boy between 15 and 55 trying to flee the city a combatant and yet be careful to distinguish inside the city when they're dead and they can include them in the kill figures for their great victory?

I suppose you think the 38 US troops that have died then during the Fallujah campaign were all killed by friendly fire


Why should I think that? (Though it is worth pointing out that all the British troops killed in the first Gulf War were killed by Americans, every single one of them, so we perhaps don't have such a high opinion of your troops as you may have.)

You would think, being an academic, that some rigors of logic might've seeped into that brain of yours.

Who ever said I was an academic?
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Postby patriot » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:52 am

Partisan hackery at it's worst. You've ceased to make sense, Penta, and your agenda is plain as day; to demonize the U.S. forces every chance you get.

Tell me how you would distinguish between a dead unarmed combatant and a dead unarmed civilian then, Tarkan.


Pretty good question, Penta. Why don't you try answering it...
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Postby Tarkan » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:08 am

Penta wrote:Tell me how you would distinguish between a dead unarmed combatant and a dead unarmed civilian then, Tarkan.


Lets play a little logic game.

A man wearing a grey shirt and a black mask is observed sniping at your unit from approximately 500 yards away with a rifle, on top of a building. Before your unit can engage, and eliminate the threat, he disappears from the rooftop.

To simplify the game a little bit, we'll assume no artillery or air support is available.

You and your men carefully approach the building.

When you get within 250 yards, a man wearing a grey shirt and a black mask darts from the building. Your M249 SAW gunner opens up and takes him out. As you go to secure the person, you see that he was not carrying a weapon.

In the little leftist world that is Penta's brain, what do we have:
1) a war crime committed by US troops?
2) an enemy combatant making a run for it?
3) a glorious freedom fighter cut down by the evil Imperialistic Forces of Haliburton USA?
4) a poor boy going to get food and water for his 14 sisters and great grandmother?
5) a great opportunity to submit your latest anti-US screed to zmag?

I'm guessing the only one that doesn't make the list for you is #2.
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Postby svizzerams » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:10 am

Tarkan wrote:
Penta wrote:Tell me how you would distinguish between a dead unarmed combatant and a dead unarmed civilian then, Tarkan.


Lets play a little logic game.

A man wearing a grey shirt and a black mask is observed sniping at your unit from approximately 500 yards away with a rifle, on top of a building. Before your unit can engage, and eliminate the threat, he disappears from the rooftop.

To simplify the game a little bit, we'll assume no artillery or air support is available.

You and your men carefully approach the building.

When you get within 250 yards, a man wearing a grey shirt and a black mask darts from the building. Your M249 SAW gunner opens up and takes him out. As you go to secure the person, you see that he was not carrying a weapon.

In the little leftist world that is Penta's brain, what do we have:
1) a war crime committed by US troops?
2) an enemy combatant making a run for it?
3) a glorious freedom fighter cut down by the evil Imperialistic Forces of Haliburton USA?
4) a poor boy going to get food and water for his 14 sisters and great grandmother?
5) a great opportunity to submit your latest anti-US screed to zmag?

I'm guessing the only one that doesn't make the list for you is #2.



What about "all of the above"......
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Postby Marco_Benoit » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:43 am

Sometimes you really are ridiculous Penta. Ok, make that like all the time. But still. You would think, being an academic, that some rigors of logic might've seeped into that brain of yours.


Common sense is not taught at the university.
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Postby Tarkan » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:56 am

svizzerams wrote:What about "all of the above"......


Nope.
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