I think the Vegas shooting

The Black Flag Cafe is the place travelers come to share stories and advice. Moderated by Robert Young Pelton the author of The World's Most Dangerous Places.

Moderator: coldharvest

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby MJK » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:21 pm

El3so-I guess that is one way to see it. Although the numbers are hard to follow 22,000 folks were there(across several days or on the day of the incident is debatable)so even spread across 3 days that is 7000 phones. Even 7000 cops couldn't get all of that footage before it flooded the internet and YT. So where is it? This was the current Mother of all mass shootings. If they had that video it would be OUT and helping to sell the narrative. There should be some dandy footage of swamped ER rooms across LV-no reason for the cops to sit on those, right? They might be out there but I haven't seen them yet.

I like how the crime scene photos got 'leaked' but not CCTV footage which would have shut people like me up.. I would be interested to know how one could check to see if the cops were in fact in possession of those vids. It would take quite a few cops to grab every pertinent camera feed record and the owners of those feeds would be on the news getting free air time talking to talking heads about it. Not hearing it.

And with 500 wounded fame hungry Americans where are all the "OMG I thought I Was Gonna Die!" stories? We had one KIA and 1 injured in the state papers. Got enough casualties for one dead and ten injured from each state.

ZH had for a bit a post from a scanner club member in LV who stated that numerous false bogey stories of gunmen at 11 different hotels hit the police channels just as the first shots were being fired at the concert. That is classic obfuscation if it is in fact true. The aforementioned post has since gone away. Hard to say what it means but scanner traffic from LV that night is still making the YT rounds.

Snaark posits that everyone would be too busy shitting them selves to video, I see that theory as refuted by gazillions of minutes of online video of all kinds of folks filming even their own deaths.

I do not know exactly what occurred but it seems awful fishy on numerous levels. Seems to be already mostly off the news map too.
User avatar
MJK
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Fairbanks

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby nowonmai » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:33 pm

MJK wrote:I do not know exactly what occurred but it seems awful fishy on numerous levels. Seems to be already mostly off the news map too.


Can't argue with that.
User avatar
nowonmai
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 11482
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:52 pm

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby ROB » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:06 am

As a general rule, arguing from lack of evidence is a big no-no in deductive reasoning.

Or, as any undergraduate will parrot, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Other related problems might be "false dichotomy" or "argumentum ad ignorantiam."

That being said, a quick visit to the world's largest video site doesn't exactly come up empty handed for raw footage of the event.
User avatar
ROB
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5106
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:49 am

quick shave with Occam&Hanlon

Postby el3so » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:06 pm

Honestly I haven't followed this "Asshole (albeit an older, richer one) kills sh!tload of people using a firearm in the USA" story much.
ROB wrote: Or, as any undergraduate will parrot, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Never change ROB.
MJK wrote:Although the numbers are hard to follow 22,000 folks were there (across several days or on the day of the incident is debatable) so even spread across 3 days that is 7000 phones. Even 7000 cops couldn't get all of that footage before it flooded the internet and YT. So where is it?
MJK wrote:This was the current Mother of all mass shootings. If they had that video it would be OUT and helping to sell the narrative.
MJK wrote:Snaark posits that everyone would be too busy shitting them selves to video, I see that theory as refuted by gazillions of minutes of online video of all kinds of folks filming even their own deaths.
There does seem to be a lot of stuff up on youtube, haven't browsed liveleak or for that matter ogrish in a long long while so most of the footage I did see is clean (SFW no gore/death stuff).
Maybe the people in the actual killzone were indeed too frightened, busy getting out, hurt or dead to start using their phones to film.
Maybe some of the ones at the outskirts had a working moral compass or lacked a good view ;-) and/or knew better than to start filming fellow concertgoers in their death throes whilst bullets were still flying.
Maybe the people that (accidentally) did film the carnage decided to not publish it online and either deleted it, keep it to jerk off to or went to law enforcement with it.
Who knows.
MJK wrote:There should be some dandy footage of swamped ER rooms across LV-no reason for the cops to sit on those, right? They might be out there but I haven't seen them yet.
Should there really be? Couldn't there be swamped ER rooms without (ghoulish no?) observers capturing it for, well, who? Would you like to see stuff like that online? Would you like footage like that involving you or your loved ones to be made public?

There are sites for that kind of thing, I do not judge, but it's pretty obvious that regular news media wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
MJK wrote:I like how the crime scene photos got 'leaked' but not CCTV footage which would have shut people like me up. I would be interested to know how one could check to see if the cops were in fact in possession of those vids. It would take quite a few cops to grab every pertinent camera feed record and the owners of those feeds would be on the news getting free air time talking to talking heads about it. Not hearing it.
Hotel CCTV is matter of guests' privacy, ongoing investigation, opsec whatever is needed to seize tapes. You "could check to see if the cops were in fact in possession of those vids" by being in law enforcement and being assigned to the case I guess ;-)
Despite the saying, being associated with a spree killing is bad publicity.

And would some couple of days' worth of timelapse grainy footage of a guy smuggling guns into a hotel room one at a time, dismantled and all, really make this seem less "awful fishy" to you?
MJK wrote:And with 500 wounded fame hungry Americans where are all the "OMG I thought I Was Gonna Die!" stories? We had one KIA and 1 injured in the state papers. Got enough casualties for one dead and ten injured from each state.
Again: should there really be?
MJK wrote:numerous false bogey stories of gunmen at 11 different hotels hit the police channels just as the first shots were being fired at the concert. That is classic obfuscation if it is in fact true. I do not know exactly what occurred but it seems awful fishy on numerous levels.
Maybe it's just non-expert earwitnesses and gunshots echoing and the cops getting flabbergasted by the scope of this drama. Maybe it's low-tech disruption of communications.
My bet is if there are shadow masters out there, their jackbooted thugs come better equipped.
MJK wrote:Seems to be already mostly off the news map too.
24 hour news baby, it's all bullshift.
Do you check the backseat of your car for intruders before you enter it?
User avatar
el3so
Creepy Uncle
 
Posts: 7901
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:25 am
Location: Beglium

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby MJK » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:56 pm

All valid points. But history shows that pathocratic entities fail under the weight of concentrated dysfunction and inability to foresee consequence. That is when the jackbooted thugs start outsourcing to their inbred in-laws. Then shit gets phoned in; plausible deniability gives way to "Nobody cares so why waste time with the finishing touches?"

Those New World Order to do lists aren't going to take care of themselves, right? So many illusions, so few Illuminati.


With a big potato harvest and 2 cords of unsplit wood awaiting my attentions I am kind of glad I am too busy to dig much deeper. A DeNiro character once said something to the effect that "If it doesn't feel right, it isn't" and that is the feeling I get when I look at what is known about this LV event. Just doesn't feel right on a bunch of levels.
User avatar
MJK
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Fairbanks

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby ROB » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:56 am

How much of your own food do you produce?
User avatar
ROB
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5106
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:49 am

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby snaark » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:19 am

MJK wrote:Just doesn't feel right on a bunch of levels.


And that there sums up just about everything.
User avatar
snaark
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:43 am
Location: Germany

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby ROB » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:20 pm

snaark wrote:
MJK wrote:Just doesn't feel right on a bunch of levels.


And that there sums up just about everything.



Do you remember when the looney left held the monopoly on the touchy feelies? That has really swapped in the last few years.
User avatar
ROB
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5106
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:49 am

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby snaark » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:14 pm

Yup, who needs facts when your gut instinct is invariably right.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21730013-large-number-republican-voters-indulge-magical-thinking-superstition-helps-explain

"If there's no monster in the closet, then why am I scared" - I love that
User avatar
snaark
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:43 am
Location: Germany

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby MJK » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:18 pm

ROB- About 180 lbs of potatoes every year and I usually wind up with 60 or so pounds of salmon, moose and caribou from friends. Gave the portable greenhouse to the nabes and that has translated into weekly greens deliveries during the summer. Next spring come the chickens.
User avatar
MJK
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Fairbanks

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby ROB » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:44 am

MJK wrote:ROB- About 180 lbs of potatoes every year and I usually wind up with 60 or so pounds of salmon, moose and caribou from friends. Gave the portable greenhouse to the nabes and that has translated into weekly greens deliveries during the summer. Next spring come the chickens.


Very cool. That sounds like roughly a diet I would love.

How much land for planting?

I only have a very small suburban block, but it's amazing how much you can get out of it. Mainly tomatoes, cucumbers, aubergines, lettuces, and various herbs, but am planning to experiment with vertical potatoes. Still contemplating chickens too.
User avatar
ROB
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5106
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:49 am

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby nowonmai » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:32 pm

Image
User avatar
nowonmai
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 11482
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:52 pm

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby MJK » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 pm

I look more like the guy in the painting 'American Gothic'. The potatoes I grow in 50 tires lining my drive. The lot is 2.52 acres mostly uncleared with a bunch of 120 foot climax growth spruce threatening to fall on everything I have.
User avatar
MJK
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Fairbanks

Postby el3so » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 pm

MJK wrote: bunch of 120 foot climax growth spruce threatening to fall on everything I have.
My gardening advice would be that you need to defuse the spruce.
Do you check the backseat of your car for intruders before you enter it?
User avatar
el3so
Creepy Uncle
 
Posts: 7901
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:25 am
Location: Beglium

Re: I think the Vegas shooting

Postby MJK » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:16 am

Yeah, the carpenter ants kill 'em but they don't turn red in the bark to tip you off like dead/dying spruce normally do. Then one day you come out of your house to find your stuff smashed by a downed tree and 100,000 homeless ants headed towards your crib.

Having said that, I would prefer to do nothing and risk damage than to get proactive and risk damage. At least until spring.

Northern lights are outrageous tonite.
User avatar
MJK
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:59 am
Location: Fairbanks

PreviousNext

Return to Black Flag Cafe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests