Lets say that the 2020 Prez Election was rigged

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Re: Lets say that the 2020 Prez Election was rigged

Postby Tarkan » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 am

Kurt wrote:
Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:For the "The Election is Rigged" crowd:

What is the hope now? That the electoral college does not vote for Biden? If they do vote for Biden then what is the plan?

General Strike or something less peaceful?


In general order:

1. Keep PA, GA, MI, WI, and/or AZ from having their electors cast votes based on the current certified results via court challenge
2. Tie up in courts until it shifts to legislatures or keeps those states from being counted in entirety
3. Have Congress decide the election when 270 votes can't be achieved by either candidate.

I do not expect much or any violence from the right if Trump loses and runs out of options to contest the loss. I expect a modest amount of noise (by modest, I mean a lot less than the left generated when Hillary lost in 2016).



Whats the plan now? It seems up to the electors.

Is the ideal scenario for the "it was stolen" crowd just to hope that the electors agree with the claims and vote for Trump?

If that does not work then what is the next step?


The next step is declassify everything and pardon everyone on his way out.

Although, I confess, it would be a perfect reality TV ending and a capstone to 2020 if he refused to vacate the office and had to be escorted out by US Marshals.
I'd whore myself out just one more time if I knew who to screw to get out of this grind.
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Re: Lets say that the 2020 Prez Election was rigged

Postby Kurt » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:44 pm

Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:
Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:For the "The Election is Rigged" crowd:

What is the hope now? That the electoral college does not vote for Biden? If they do vote for Biden then what is the plan?

General Strike or something less peaceful?


In general order:

1. Keep PA, GA, MI, WI, and/or AZ from having their electors cast votes based on the current certified results via court challenge
2. Tie up in courts until it shifts to legislatures or keeps those states from being counted in entirety
3. Have Congress decide the election when 270 votes can't be achieved by either candidate.

I do not expect much or any violence from the right if Trump loses and runs out of options to contest the loss. I expect a modest amount of noise (by modest, I mean a lot less than the left generated when Hillary lost in 2016).



Whats the plan now? It seems up to the electors.

Is the ideal scenario for the "it was stolen" crowd just to hope that the electors agree with the claims and vote for Trump?

If that does not work then what is the next step?


The next step is declassify everything and pardon everyone on his way out.

Although, I confess, it would be a perfect reality TV ending and a capstone to 2020 if he refused to vacate the office and had to be escorted out by US Marshals.


Wait...Declassify everything? As in literally everything?

Pardon everyone as in literally everyone?
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Postby el3so » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:50 pm

Tarkan wrote: The next step is declassify everything.

Hate to sound like a handsome, well-paid stooge for the deep state but those decisions shouldn't be up to elected officials IMO.
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Re:

Postby Kurt » Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:59 pm

el3so wrote:
Tarkan wrote: The next step is declassify everything.

Hate to sound like a handsome, well-paid stooge for the deep state but those decisions shouldn't be up to elected officials IMO.


Since we do not have a King, it has to be up to someone for pardons.

Of course Pardons are supposed to be an act of justice and mercy, like where a law has to be obeyed but because of it, justice was not served.

A good example of a good pardon is Governor Patterson of New York State pardoned a man for killing a young man who was on his property threatening to kill his son (after trying to run the kid over with his car). He had a black powder pistol and pretty much set the kid on fire. But he had an illegal weapon and admitted to the police that he did not give the dead kid an option to escape the property.

The "murderer" had survived KKK attacks in the south in the 1950s when his family was targeted.

But he went to prison anyway because he talked to cops, confessed everything since he assumed he would be in the clear. So the Governor had to pardon him.

Jimmy Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers. Most ended up liking Canada so much that they stayed but still that was needed.

The rules assumes that the President has an amount of decency and has the best interests of his country and the interest of justice when the pardons are made. Clinton and Bush made some shitty, self serving pardons. Ford got the ball rolling of course by pardoning Nixon ..No one actually thought a president who was never elected or even part of the elected ticket as vice president would dare to pardon the person who gave him the most powerful job in the world (at the time) but he did.

Whatever Trump does will likely be shitty but we should just suck it up and keep the institution of executive pardons anyway.
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Re: Lets say that the 2020 Prez Election was rigged

Postby Tarkan » Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:54 pm

Kurt wrote:Wait...Declassify everything? As in literally everything?

Pardon everyone as in literally everyone?


Not literally everything, but everything around the election interference, everything around the CIA/NSA/FBI black ops against the 2016 Trump campaign and the 2017-2020 Trump admin, at a minimum.
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Re: Lets say that the 2020 Prez Election was rigged

Postby Kurt » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:45 pm

Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:Wait...Declassify everything? As in literally everything?

Pardon everyone as in literally everyone?


Not literally everything, but everything around the election interference, everything around the CIA/NSA/FBI black ops against the 2016 Trump campaign and the 2017-2020 Trump admin, at a minimum.


Ahhh...Ok I was wondering.

I am one of those somewhat aspie types who takes "everything" as literally everything.
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Postby el3so » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:13 pm

Now that kind of leak might actually help in draining the swamp.
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Re:

Postby Tarkan » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:08 am

el3so wrote:Now that kind of leak might actually help in draining the swamp.


Nah. I've been reading Peter Turchin lately. We're at the tail end of the stagflation stage of a secular cycle, heading into the depression phase.

Our principal problem is elite over production and intra-elite competition. The way you drain the swamp from this point out is to extinguish most of the elites.
I'd whore myself out just one more time if I knew who to screw to get out of this grind.
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Re: Re:

Postby sparrow » Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:23 pm

Tarkan wrote:
el3so wrote:Now that kind of leak might actually help in draining the swamp.


Nah. I've been reading Peter Turchin lately. We're at the tail end of the stagflation stage of a secular cycle, heading into the depression phase.

Our principal problem is elite over production and intra-elite competition. The way you drain the swamp from this point out is to extinguish most of the elites.

Ah yes, the elite
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214682158
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Re: Re:

Postby Kurt » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:38 pm

Tarkan wrote:
el3so wrote:Now that kind of leak might actually help in draining the swamp.


Nah. I've been reading Peter Turchin lately. We're at the tail end of the stagflation stage of a secular cycle, heading into the depression phase.

Our principal problem is elite over production and intra-elite competition. The way you drain the swamp from this point out is to extinguish most of the elites.


Thats not what Turchin advocates. I first heard of him in 2016 when he said that Donald Trump getting elected reflects an increase in negative trends and he anticipated his (wrongly) his reelection in 2020 as well.
He seems to think that the only candidates that can reverse this negative trend would be those pushing for ending economic disparity. So Biden would not seem to be a solution to the problem but perhaps just a brief pause to allows the negative trends to better organize.
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