Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

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Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:13 am

Not here (unless RYP has other ideas) but everyplace else.

Property rights so tough shit.

Buuuut... Backbone companies have a tacit agreement to not censor.

Right now Hurricane Electric offers internet backbones for $6k per month.

A Texas and a Missouri location of 2 lines each would run $24k per month. Data center friendly business leasing could be had for $10k per month per location for a share or an enterprising Neo Confederate could buy and build. Not sure how much that would cost but it could be done.

Guessing equipment and HVAC would run $250k per location. Staff would be maybe $300k per year.

There is your freedom of speech. Work and cash. Or go back to printed media.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby gnaruki » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:54 am

So Trump might be able to afford his own media platform?
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:01 am

gnaruki wrote:So Trump might be able to afford his own media platform?

Not him. Hes broke.

But someone else.

Of course since it is the American Right it will just bea cash grabbing ponzi scheme and never get built

Then they will bitch and demand to be let back in to the society they hate.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Tarkan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:08 am

Yeah, but they'll just cut off the DNS like they did with Stormfront and 8chan.
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Postby el3so » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:45 am

gnaruki wrote:So Trump might be able to afford his own media platform?
Doubt any of the big banks will ask for him on the public speaking circuit. Maybe he can get this tv show back.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby snaark » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:05 am

Kurt wrote:Buuuut... Backbone companies have a tacit agreement to not censor.


The trouble with tacit agreements is that they're not legally binding. Freedom of expression means the govt can't punish you for expressing your opinion, provided that in doing so you're not causing harm (I would say telling a mob to ransack govt buildings clears this bar by some distance). It doesn't mean a private company like Twitter or Facebook is obligated to give you a soapbox. They are private entities, with terms and conditions of use. Don't apply with the terms, you get booted.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby ROB » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:35 am

snaark wrote:
Kurt wrote:Buuuut... Backbone companies have a tacit agreement to not censor.


The trouble with tacit agreements is that they're not legally binding. Freedom of expression means the govt can't punish you for expressing your opinion, provided that in doing so you're not causing harm (I would say telling a mob to ransack govt buildings clears this bar by some distance). It doesn't mean a private company like Twitter or Facebook is obligated to give you a soapbox. They are private entities, with terms and conditions of use. Don't apply with the terms, you get booted.


Sure that is the legal position. But whether that is a good thing is what is at question.

They deplatformed an ELECTED official. That is problematic for so many reasons. Probably the lesser of two evils, but also exposes some real problems for next time.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby snaark » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:15 am

Point taken but I think he got enough chances. Spreading bullshit conspiracy theories is one thing, inciting violence and sedition is entirely another. Don't get me wrong, I think Facebook is evil (I deleted my account years ago) and banning him is probably hypocritical, given that Facebook et al allow worse things in other countries (Myanmar and India for example), but conservatives whining that their freedom of speech has been violated probably need to read their own laws a bit closer.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby snaark » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:21 am

Double post
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby ROB » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:00 pm

I am sure as shit not shedding a tear for any fuckwit who supported Trump.

But it’s easy enough to manufacture any of the feelings/thoughts/intentions that you are talking about.

This is taking the primacy of a democratic government in such things away and handing it to the tech oligarchs. I mean, I always thought they would break up these companies way before something like this happened, but here we are.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Tarkan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:51 pm

snaark wrote:
Kurt wrote:Buuuut... Backbone companies have a tacit agreement to not censor.


The trouble with tacit agreements is that they're not legally binding. Freedom of expression means the govt can't punish you for expressing your opinion, provided that in doing so you're not causing harm (I would say telling a mob to ransack govt buildings clears this bar by some distance). It doesn't mean a private company like Twitter or Facebook is obligated to give you a soapbox. They are private entities, with terms and conditions of use. Don't apply with the terms, you get booted.


The problem is, they are private entities with special legal carve outs as digital platforms to exempt them from the content that's posted by third parties using their platforms. Acting as a platform puts the onus on them to be impartial with regard to enforcement actions otherwise they become a publisher and should have their immunity stripped for content that is libelous or inciteful.

They are trying to have their cake and eat it to, which is to say, they allow content that foments protests and riots so long as they conform to their viewpoint, and suppress the ones that don't, while being exempted from liability for the latter because they "don't curate the content because they are a platform." A while back, Facebook basically came out and said doxxing is bad and will get you booted from the site, unless we don't like the person you are doxxing, then it's ok.

And with regard to "my business, my rules", the companies in question are closer to utilities than Bob's Cake Shop (who, btw, per court rulings, CAN be forced to sell a cake design he doesn't want to make to people he doesn't want to sell to by the government).

AWS shutting down Parler (and Parler IS down) is a lesson in 1) putting all your eggs in one basket if you are in technology, 2) going to be a hell of a court case potentially.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:56 pm

I don't think it will be a court case.

I mean, your predictions of court cases being dramatic or favorable since the election have not been accurate so far so I have to assume that parler suing Amazon will do anything other than sputter out.

If I were them I would move to Russia, but Russia has it's risks especially among a crowd that thinks Russia's risks are over-stated.

"Hello! You work at State Department wanting Boogaloo. If Discover this you fired. If not discover, then have job. Can helping you now have job or can helping you now be fired. Which do you want?"

Same with banks, State and Municipal Governments, Water Treatment, power generation and transmission, airports, GAC.

For security reasons I would propose an "Amnesty" for those who supported but did not storm the capitol, just to get them back in the fold if approached by foreign agents.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:59 pm

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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Kurt » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:51 pm

Now Parler is located in the Russian Controlled Crimea as part of Maksym Sabat'ev's online businesses which include UK based companies that use Russian bandwith from iPipe.net.
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Re: Banning Coup Plotters and Supporters

Postby Tarkan » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:30 am

Kurt wrote:I don't think it will be a court case.

I mean, your predictions of court cases being dramatic or favorable since the election have not been accurate so far so I have to assume that parler suing Amazon will do anything other than sputter out.


Huh? It played out exactly how I predicted. I predicted Trump would lose in the courts. Having a case and winning a case are two different things. No part of the establishment - left or right- is interested in casting well deserved doubt onto our election system. In the end the establishment rejected Trump like a bad tissue graft.

For security reasons I would propose an "Amnesty" for those who supported but did not storm the capitol, just to get them back in the fold if approached by foreign agents.


Well too bad you aren't calling the shots because the left and their tech allies are going fucking crazy. In addition to AWS dealing the death penalty to Parker with 24 hours advance notice, Facebook deep sixed Walkaway, locked Ron Paul out of his account (because he posts such incendiary things), and Goddaddy revoked AR15.com's DNS (without notice or documentation of whatever ToS they allegedly violated). And Biden isn't even President yet. These guys are giddy with anticipation of being able to twist the knife on all those Trump supporters and at the opportunity to punish all the people who don't think the right way by ruining their lives. That'll teach them about their transphobia for not supporting the right of a transwoman (it's ma'am) to beat the shit out of a biological woman in an MMA cage match or for having the horribly bigoted point of view that only women can give birth.

I mean if I actually wanted a civil war this is what I would want to happen. A heavy handed response by Democrats, them further weaponizing law enforcement against political opponents (we got a little taste in 2015 and 2016), and ruining the lives of a large number of already pissed off conservatives so they have nothing to lose. All we need now is a massacre of some conservatives in a crowd (which the left is itching to do based on the post Jan 6 commentary I've been reading - and you thought I was bloodthirsty for cheering on a couple of cars), and we are primed to slip into the reprisal-counter reprisal cycle that heralds the beginning of a dirty civil war.

What I don't get is what the left thinks they will win, even if they do win.
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