NYC f'd?

[ROB]

Nuclear Submarines.

That is all.[/quote]

Stand by for the guy who woke up to an alarm giving you further lectures about freedom from his cubicle when he's on break.

[Tarkan]

Nuclear Submarines.

That is all.

Stand by for the guy who woke up to an alarm giving you further lectures about freedom from his cubicle when he's on break.[/quote]

That's a sick burn.

Edited to add, I am curious how the sparrow quote got stuck in a reply to "Nuclear Submarines", when sparrow wasn't involved in that particular thread.

[el3so]

Nuclear Submarines.

Stand by for the guy who woke up to an alarm giving you further lectures about freedom from his cubicle when he's on break.

Yo, I know it's been de rigueur to laugh at the whole of the USA but that's some mighty fine real politiking. Didn't expect the AU two of you to be rooting for defense industry purposes neither ;-)

French bid fell through, 8? subs without nuclear capabilities, from nuclear propulsion to diesel to nuclear again? Seems to be the lesser of both halves re: offensive and defensive capabilities. Then again, can't throw stones living in (but for the French force de frappe and NATO bases) a glass house.

[ROB]

It was a fuck up from Australia.

Yesterday we had a contract for 12 completed boats.

Today we have a promise to consider bids on 8 propulsion systems without boats.

That being said, if the SCS shit hits the fan, we need to be interoperable with the US Navy. Most likely scenario (despite what Chicken Littles like Tarkan will tell you) isn't that Australia gets invaded (it won't), it's that it gets blockaded. Chinese shenanigans in the SCS will have us worried.

Also, always nice to incense the French.

[el3so]

a contract for 12 completed boats.

You ever work with a French company? Not like those subs were anywhere near finished.

That being said, if the SCS shit hits the fan, we need to be interoperable with the US Navy. Most likely scenario (...) isn't that Australia gets invaded (it won't), it's that it gets blockaded.

Like I said, not in much of a position to throw stones here but without the Pacific fleet and strategic bombers, those 8 subs won't be much use in case someone decides to cut off your small pop, big surface island, esp one that is pretty much uninhabitable apart from the coastal areas, let alone meddling in South East Asian waters.

[ROB]

a contract for 12 completed boats.

You ever work with a French company? Not like those subs were anywhere near finished.

That being said, if the SCS shit hits the fan, we need to be interoperable with the US Navy. Most likely scenario (...) isn't that Australia gets invaded (it won't), it's that it gets blockaded.

Like I said, not in much of a position to throw stones here but without the Pacific fleet and strategic bombers, those 8 subs won't be much use in case someone decides to cut off your small pop, big surface island, esp one that is pretty much uninhabitable apart from the coastal areas, let alone meddling in South East Asian waters.

8 Subs is enough to say to the US, "hey look, we are all in and we have helped you in literally every war you fought in the last 70 years, so how's about you lend us the keys to that shiny 7th fleet?"

Australian geopolitical strategy can basically be summed up as making ourselves invaluable to whoever has the best navy. Has been that way for 100 years or more.

[snaark]

8 Subs is enough to say to the US, "hey look, we are all in and we have helped you in literally every war you fought in the last 70 years, so how's about you lend us the keys to that shiny 7th fleet?"

Australian geopolitical strategy can basically be summed up as making ourselves invaluable to whoever has the best navy. Has been that way for 100 years or more.

Yup, except certain recent (and possibly future) American presidents don't seem to give a fuck about all that.

[snaark]

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-australia-wanted-out-of-its-french-sub-deal/

[ROB]

Yup, except certain recent (and possibly future) American presidents don't seem to give a fuck about all that.

Sure, but I think most of their generals are basically on board with the idea so the Pres would be getting some serious kickback. Though I grant it's not airtight. But it's more or less all a middle power has.

[Kurt]

What is funny about all this here is that in 2003 the "Freedom Fries" crowd was actually searching for a way to switch France from an ally of the US to an adversary.

Now the same group is worried we hurt Frances feelings because Oz picked our subs.

[seektravelinfo]

What is funny about all this here is that in 2003 the "Freedom Fries" crowd was actually searching for a way to switch France from an ally of the US to an adversary.

Now the same group is worried we hurt Frances feelings because Oz picked our subs.

I know, right? That’s the first thing I thought of. Petty grievances. So, it’s France’s turn to be butt-hurt. Oh, to live in a world where this was our only major concern.

[snaark]

The last time France got in a tizzy at America:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/02/espionage-moi/

[ROB]

The French will throw a diplomatic fit at stale canapes. In the end, who really gives a shit?

[snaark]

Noone. In fact it seems almost everyone, even people who think AUKUS is a dumb idea, seem amused by it.

Incidentally I can see why the French were excluded from the club: otherwise they would have to call it FAUKUS.

[el3so]

Australian geopolitical strategy can basically be summed up as making ourselves invaluable to whoever has the best navy. Has been that way for 100 years or more.

"Invaluable" is a big word in the age of aerial refueling, ICBMs and nuclear submarines. Again, glass houses over here but I'm gonna bet on being stuck in between the 2 major powers of Europe any day of the week.
PRC 'll implode before they get that belt&road thing working, white man tried that sh!t with even less consideration for the locals in the past.