56 years ago that hero climbed that tower in Texas

[Kurt]

I probably am atypical but in 48 years you had one chance of being snuffed by a gun and I had three.
I am curious about similar experiences by those in other countries.

[Tarkan]

Automobiles: Potential threat actively managed by society, laws and orgs.
Drunk Drivers: Potential threat actively managed by society, laws and orgs.
Heart Disease: Potential threat actively managed by society, laws and orgs.

This isn't hard.

What makes you think guns aren't actively managed by society, laws, and organizations. I guarantee you we have more gun control laws on the books than we have heart disease laws.

"actively managed"

Yet your senate won't even allow a vote on background checks.

When was the last time they wouldn't vote on heart disease laws?

We have had a background check law since 1993 as party of the Brady Bill.

The kid that did the Uvalde shooting bought his gun legally (he purchased one of his guns himself via an FFL, which means his name was run through NICS).

A more appropriate question at this point might be why did the police spend 45 minutes waiting to make entry, spending more time setting up a perimeter to prevent parents from making entry themselves to save their kids.

https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/ ... wsrc%5Etfw

[Kurt]

A more appropriate question at this point might be why did the police spend 45 minutes waiting to make entry, spending more time setting up a perimeter to prevent parents from making entry themselves to save their kids.

https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/ ... wsrc%5Etfw

As part of a project I am working on for my job I am finding most of these reactions are due to procedures adopted based on advice by Law Enforcement Consultants.
Often these consultants have no actual experience in Law Enforcement or anything else. What I am specifically looking into is not related to mass shootings but rather the reason why NYPD and MTAPD have a policy of never stopping Right Wing marchers even if they do mass fare evasion and threaten MTA Customers like they did a few months ago when Groypers and Proud Boys went to Long Island to protest mask / vax laws.
In fact, the cops sitting around doing nothing were waiting for "Counter Protesters" to arrest should any have appeared. So if someone got tired about being called a "Nogger" (they avoid saying Nigger if possible) and objected the cops would have arrested the person who objected to the point that they became a "Counter Protester".

So, here we have cops actually refusing to storm a school (understandable in a way, I wouldn't want to face an AR-15, and The Supreme Court has basically upheld that cops don't have to do shit if they don't want to) and restraining and threatening people who are victims rather than the "bad guys".

Betcha this is a Policy that came from a Consultant, and that consultant was "Donated" that Policy from some LEO "Non-Profit" that specializes in crisis reaction. And that Non-Profit will basically do nothing other than write out policy that no one could possibly agree with.

[Tarkan]

A more appropriate question at this point might be why did the police spend 45 minutes waiting to make entry, spending more time setting up a perimeter to prevent parents from making entry themselves to save their kids.

https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/ ... wsrc%5Etfw

As part of a project I am working on for my job I am finding most of these reactions are due to procedures adopted based on advice by Law Enforcement Consultants.
Often these consultants have no actual experience in Law Enforcement or anything else. What I am specifically looking into is not related to mass shootings but rather the reason why NYPD and MTAPD have a policy of never stopping Right Wing marchers even if they do mass fare evasion and threaten MTA Customers like they did a few months ago when Groypers and Proud Boys went to Long Island to protest mask / vax laws.
In fact, the cops sitting around doing nothing were waiting for "Counter Protesters" to arrest should any have appeared. So if someone got tired about being called a "Nogger" (they avoid saying Nigger if possible) and objected the cops would have arrested the person who objected to the point that they became a "Counter Protester".

So, here we have cops actually refusing to storm a school (understandable in a way, I wouldn't want to face an AR-15, and The Supreme Court has basically upheld that cops don't have to do shit if they don't want to) and restraining and threatening people who are victims rather than the "bad guys".

Betcha this is a Policy that came from a Consultant, and that consultant was "Donated" that Policy from some LEO "Non-Profit" that specializes in crisis reaction. And that Non-Profit will basically do nothing other than write out policy that no one could possibly agree with.

Being something of a mid-level bureaucrat (who hates bureaucracy, but self-aware enough to accept the reality of the situation), I can easily see how this would come about:

scenario: active shooting, armed parents make entry to "save" their kids.

problem:
1. What if parents misidentify each other and start shooting at each other?
2. What if parents accidentally shoot kids?
3. How do cops differentiate armed parents from the active shooter (protip: they don't, any armed individual not wearing a police uniform will be presumed to be the active shooter).

Solution:
1. Prevent parents from making entry.

Very logical, makes sense in a lot of situations but completely undercut by the fact that almost any other scenario response is better than letting an active shooter execute kids with impunity while cops fall back on crowd control policies.

But "policy" is basically the cop indemnity shield. As long as they were following policy, the union and the PD will protect them from criminal and civil liability.

[Tarkan]

It keeps getting better.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Usedtobebrew ... 1135551489

Police reportedly went into the school, retrieved their kids, did not engage the shooter, and then prevented non-cop parents (aka "little people") from retrieving their kids also.

Edited to add:

This is anarcho-tyranny in action.

The state isn't powerful enough to protect you and be of actual use, but it is powerful enough to terrorize you and fuck your shit up if you get it's attention.

Disappointing because Texas LEO usually has their shit squared away.

[Kurt]

Disappointing because Texas LEO usually has their shit squared away.

Hoping that other PDs around the country will actually evaluate their policies on this type of situation since we all fucking know it is gonna happen again.

My guess is the PD there will suffer zero consequences. Even when they called (allegedly) for kids to indentify themselves if they needed help and the as-yet-alive active shooter used that information to shoot an extra kid.

[seektravelinfo]

Keep in mind that this is a small town, likely under equipped and undertrained. It wasn’t local police that stopped the shooter, it was Federal Border cops deployed to the scene that stopped the shooter. Regardless, the Border cops role isn’t to deal with mass school shootings so they probably weren’t trained for this scenario either, although they probably have had counter-terrorism training in stopping a suicide bomber, which is, a kill shot to the middle of the forehead.

Even though this wasn’t the first rodeo of mass shootings in South Texas.

But Governor Abbott, per his press conference yesterday, refused to divulge from their script that this was a mental health issue. Those on the podium supportive of that spin (LET’S NOT TALK ABOUT GUNS) seemed to be quite content to move on. Then, BETO FUCKING O’ROURKE !!!!
Thank you, dude. Put their panties right in a twist.

The Thin Blue Line. Hardy har har. Stay behind the thin blue line, do not pass go.

[Tarkan]

Keep in mind that this is a small town, likely under equipped and undertrained. It wasn’t local police that stopped the shooter, it was Federal Border cops deployed to the scene that stopped the shooter.

There is still a lot of conflicting information out there. One of the stories is that it was an off-duty CBP agent who rushed in and killed Ramos. Then again, they are saying that there was 90 minutes between when the first 911 call went out and when Ramos was shot dead, so 90 minutes isn't exactly rushing in. And apparently the local cops rushed in and saved their own kids in the school, and then prevented parents from going in and doing the same.

Another story was that CBP had a tactical team stationed in town and they were the ones that responded and neutralized Ramos. Uvalde isn't THAT small, and a I guarantee you the county or the city PD has a tac team (which is likely composed of full time patrol officers that double duty as SWAT when the occasion arises) that were trained for this. Going by the gear load outs in some of the video, these were not Barney Fife one bullet in their pistol types.

But Governor Abbott, per his press conference yesterday, refused to divulge from their script that this was a mental health issue. Those on the podium supportive of that spin (LET’S NOT TALK ABOUT GUNS) seemed to be quite content to move on. Then, BETO FUCKING O’ROURKE !!!!
Thank you, dude. Put their panties right in a twist.

Bob the Billionaire Burglar pretty much sunk his career in Texas with that little outburst.

You aren't putting the guns toothpaste back in the tube at this point, even if you banned and confiscated every gun out there. You buy a 3d printer and print a pistol caliber carbine for a lot less money than Ramos spent on his AR.

[Kurt]

This plucky little girl has moxie!

https://nypost.com/2022/05/26/texas-sch ... ayed-dead/

Her friend gets shot in front of her. Dead, so she smears her friend's blood on herself to play dead.

And it worked!

Of course we live in land where kids had better learn to smear classmates blood on themselves in order to live and hope to fucking god school shooters don't figure out "dead checking" during the next one.

[el3so]

hope to fucking god school shooters don't figure out "dead checking" during the next one.

The trick is to make ammo even more expensive.

[el3so]

You buy a 3d printer and print a pistol caliber carbine for a lot less money than Ramos spent on his AR.

I've been told some pretty fancy metallurgic magic goes into making a functioning firing chamber.
You could print out a saturday night special piece of sh!t gun to look cool in pictures, but I doubt it can take the kind of punishment that goes into shooting, let alone killing, 20 odd humans, even if some of them are small children.

[Tarkan]

You buy a 3d printer and print a pistol caliber carbine for a lot less money than Ramos spent on his AR.

I've been told some pretty fancy metallurgic magic goes into making a functioning firing chamber.
You could print out a saturday night special piece of sh!t gun to look cool in pictures, but I doubt it can take the kind of punishment that goes into shooting, let alone killing, 20 odd humans, even if some of them are small children.

It doesn't, especially not with pistol cartridge pressures.

[Kurt]

hope to fucking god school shooters don't figure out "dead checking" during the next one.

The trick is to make ammo even more expensive.

Tax by caliber.
Then require liability insurance on the firearm per amount of destruction possible due to misuse.
We got age limits, so we don't need them anymore.
That way we don't "gotta pry them from their cold, dead hands" we just gotta make locks and safes more appealing and make it so if an unisured gun is used for shit that mofo goes broke or his / her insurance company pays.

This will lead to less AR-15 paraded around while shopping and more .22 single shot bolt action rifles locked in safes.

[el3so]

You buy a 3d printer and print a pistol caliber carbine for a lot less money than Ramos spent on his AR.

I've been told some pretty fancy metallurgic magic goes into making a functioning firing chamber.
You could print out a saturday night special piece of sh!t gun to look cool in pictures, but I doubt it can take the kind of punishment that goes into shooting, let alone killing, 20 odd humans, even if some of them are small children.

It doesn't, especially not with pistol cartridge pressures.

If it results in more people that are not allowed to legally own firearms maiming their hands, I am all for it.

[Tarkan]

Considering the stories coming out about just how badly the cops fucked up here, disarming law abiding citizens and putting my family’s safety further in the hands of cops with qualified immunity who don’t give a shit about you or your family seems like a really stupid idea.