Sussman Acquitted

[Kurt]

All that for a single count of lying to a Federal Agent.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/ex-clinto ... sia-trial/

Does this mean Russia-Gate was real?

Probably.

[Tarkan]

All that for a single count of lying to a Federal Agent.

I'm sure Michael Flynn was thinking the same thing.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/ex-clinto ... sia-trial/

Does this mean Russia-Gate was real?

Probably.[/quote]

If nothing else, it means the Deep State protects it's own better than Trump does. Sussman was acquitted on a technicality - he didn't lie to the FBI because the FBI already knew that the Russia-gate hoax info came from the Hillary campaign and that it was a joint, collaborative effort by the Hillary campaign, the DOJ, and the FBI conspirators to bring down Trump, and if not bring him down, then tie up Trump loyal DOJ elements from being able to prosecute malfeasance by the cabal like group affiliated with Hillary Clinton.

[Kurt]

Trump is really shitty at protecting his own because he doesn't care about anyone, even his cronies.

But with all the Deep State and Cabal bullshit. (and it is total Bullshit, used in the Trumpian context) The Jury's forman said it best:

"I think we could have spent our time more wisely."

"It didn't pan out in the government's favor and that's on them,"

Seems like a bit more than a technicality. Unless you meant "Not lying to the FBI" as a Technicality that he got off on. Because I guess being Not Guilty is a technicality.

The problem with the Deep State and Cabal nonsense is that even when it is proven in court to be bullshit, by it's very nature the proof against it's existence is proof of it's existance.

So every loss is not really a loss...its the Deep State. That bullshit combined with accusing people of being "Groomers" is some Protocol of the Learned Elders of Zion shit. It is meant to get people to kill political opponents, Jews or not.

[Tarkan]

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3 ... -to-flynn/

The Deep State isn't bullshit. It's simply the political, bureaucratic, media, and national security establishment that, most of the time, runs the country, and is largely unaccountable to voters in any real respect.

Any time an outsider like Trump (or Bernie Sanders or Ron Paul) gets a little bit of momentum, or God forbid, actually wins an election, the establishment reacts like a vigorous immune system when a trans-species tissue graft has been applied.

[Michael]

"Deep state" sounds so ominous and conspiratorial, like the Illuminati. In reality, it's just the "WeBe" protecting their turf. But WeBe (as in "We be here before you were elected and we be here after you're gone") just doesn't sound as sexy as Deep State.

[Kurt]

"Deep state" sounds so ominous and conspiratorial, like the Illuminati. In reality, it's just the "WeBe" protecting their turf. But WeBe (as in "We be here before you were elected and we be here after you're gone") just doesn't sound as sexy as Deep State.

I found the closest to a "Deep State" are two groups.

1. Regular beaurocrats. Quite often the kind who operate under rules and regulations (like county Housing deed clerks) that are employed to follow and enforce rules and regulations. These include various employees of the three branches of government too.

2. NGO / Charities / Think Tanks. Groups employed and funded to advocate for a special interest group or groups but often influence or even write laws for the benefit of these groups and often against the public interest. The NRA and various Health Insurance Lobbying groups, but there are of course many others.

The closest I have come to "Deep State" as defined by the conspiracy people is State Redistricting councils / Agencies. Having worked for one here in New York I can they exist only to keep incumbents in office. When one side gains control then they exist to keep their majority. In New York the Democrats gerrymandered themselves extra seats and in various Republican states they have done the same.

Usually when people bitch about The Deep State they talk about the Charities / NGO etc. but end up firing the beaurocrats...either because they are an easy target or their adherence to rules and regulations ends up thwarting a politicians career or their friend's business interests. If they can be corrupted to act in their own interests then they are no longer "The Deep State" (even though by definition they become more like the Deep State)

[Michael]

Kurt said "I found the closest to a "Deep State" are two groups...."

I'd add a third, and probably the most insidious, group...career mid-level political appointees. They have a great deal of authority, but are insulated from above and below. Of course, when they do get busted and tossed under the bus, they seem to find themselves drawn to NGOs, lobbying, and consulting.

[Kurt]

Kurt said "I found the closest to a "Deep State" are two groups...."

I'd add a third, and probably the most insidious, group...career mid-level political appointees. They have a great deal of authority, but are insulated from above and below. Of course, when they do get busted and tossed under the bus, they seem to find themselves drawn to NGOs, lobbying, and consulting.

We have those in NY. Tons of them but they dont work so muuch as they just "show up" for work (no show jobs were banned at the government level years ago) but I can see how they could be "Deep State" if they applied themselves.
New York State appointees can only be fired by the body that appoints them. So those appointed by the senate or assembly never get fired....unless they harrass someone based on Race, sex Religion etc.
So in that case The Deep State is Trumped by Rule Of Law.

I worked with one appointed woman who went on a very loud anti asian rant against a midwestern women who was last in Korea when she was an infant (my jar of kimchee exploded in the fridge and she was blamed) so the ranter was shitcanned and then she promptly sued for illegal termination and list that too plus had to pay the states legal fees.
To fight the deep state, immutable workplace standards gotta be passed.

[Tarkan]

"Deep state" sounds so ominous and conspiratorial, like the Illuminati. In reality, it's just the "WeBe" protecting their turf. But WeBe (as in "We be here before you were elected and we be here after you're gone") just doesn't sound as sexy as Deep State.

I found the closest to a "Deep State" are two groups.

1. Regular beaurocrats. Quite often the kind who operate under rules and regulations (like county Housing deed clerks) that are employed to follow and enforce rules and regulations. These include various employees of the three branches of government too.

2. NGO / Charities / Think Tanks. Groups employed and funded to advocate for a special interest group or groups but often influence or even write laws for the benefit of these groups and often against the public interest. The NRA and various Health Insurance Lobbying groups, but there are of course many others.

The closest I have come to "Deep State" as defined by the conspiracy people is State Redistricting councils / Agencies. Having worked for one here in New York I can they exist only to keep incumbents in office. When one side gains control then they exist to keep their majority. In New York the Democrats gerrymandered themselves extra seats and in various Republican states they have done the same.

Usually when people bitch about The Deep State they talk about the Charities / NGO etc. but end up firing the beaurocrats...either because they are an easy target or their adherence to rules and regulations ends up thwarting a politicians career or their friend's business interests. If they can be corrupted to act in their own interests then they are no longer "The Deep State" (even though by definition they become more like the Deep State)

It's a little more insidious than this.

For example, take James Comey. As Director of the FBI, he was nominally subordinate to the Attorney General and the Department of Justice. As was McCabe and the anti-Trump cabal. In actuality, they were functionally a rogue cabal operating outside of any actual governmental or legal control. Not accountable to the courts, not accountable to the Legislative Branch, and not accountable to the Executive Branch. Because Comey briefed the (Obama holdover) DNI, you could maybe make a weak claim that there was at least a little bit of cross (Executive Branch) oversight, but given that the cabal members (re: Sussman) lied to the FISA court and used fabricated Hillary campaign disinfo to get the whole ball rolling, and literally no one was punished legally (see Sussman's treatment vs. Michael Flynn's treatment, for example), it's hard to make that claim with any credibility.

Thus, we have extant groups of people within the government - largely mid and senior level bureaucrats who, one way or another, exercise police power, but are themselves largely insulated from civil, legal, or criminal sanction for misuse of that police power, and persist much longer than election cycles do. Additionally, they have connections into other vestibules of state power, as well as preferred media outlets willing to help to spin a narrative any way they deem appropriate. These groups, today, are ideologically left of center, but not leftist. The state is their god, not Lenin or Marx. Thus they supported Hillary over Trump, and Hillary over Bernie, but were equally at home under GWB, Obama, and Bill Clinton.

[Kurt]

For example, take James Comey. As Director of the FBI, he was nominally subordinate to the Attorney General and the Department of Justice. As was McCabe and the anti-Trump cabal. In actuality, they were functionally a rogue cabal operating outside of any actual governmental or legal control. Not accountable to the courts, not accountable to the Legislative Branch, and not accountable to the Executive Branch.

How do you figure? The FBI director can be fired by the President..and Comey was fired by him.
Anti-Trump Cabal = Investigating Trump and Flynn for actual crimes. So we could also say Rudy Guilliani was part of an Anti-Mafia Cabal...which is true, he was. That was his job. Later of course Guilliani joined the Anti-Ferret Cabal and things went downhill for him.

But anyway, this is the Legal Exceptionalism part of a Fascist movement. People doing their job are described as committing a crime for doing their job.
We see it with election workers too. Someone refuses to toss out votes or refuses to stop counting votes and they become criminals.

[Kurt]

One type of Deep State might be Supreme Court Justices.

Technically only answerable if they lied during their confirmation. But no one has ever impeached a Justice before (except Justice Samuel Chase in 1805 but that might have been the fact that the author of our Declaration of Independence, Child Rapist, Slave Owner and third president of the United States hated Chase's Federalist leanings and obnoxious personality. The Senate refused to press charges) but they are pretty much immune from stuff.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... lawmakers/

Apparently their spouses are as well.

Unless Thomas Jefferson is pissed off at you, that means you can pretty much do anything.

So Ginni Thomas = Deep State.

[Tarkan]

The Supreme Court doesn't command a bureaucracy. They get to basically say red light / green light.

[Tarkan]

An example of the "Deep State":

The Democratic law firm Perkins Coie had an FBI FISA terminal installed at their law office which was accessible and illegally accessed by law firm personnel (not FBI, not government).

Which is consistent with this report:

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ico ... r_2017.pdf

Which found that 85% of all FISA searches under the Obama DOJ were illegal. Of course, the no one is going to prosecute the FBI for breaking the law.

[ROB]

For example, take James Comey. As Director of the FBI, he was nominally subordinate to the Attorney General and the Department of Justice. As was McCabe and the anti-Trump cabal. In actuality, they were functionally a rogue cabal operating outside of any actual governmental or legal control. Not accountable to the courts, not accountable to the Legislative Branch, and not accountable to the Executive Branch. Because Comey briefed the (Obama holdover) DNI, you could maybe make a weak claim that there was at least a little bit of cross (Executive Branch) oversight, but given that the cabal members (re: Sussman) lied to the FISA court and used fabricated Hillary campaign disinfo to get the whole ball rolling, and literally no one was punished legally (see Sussman's treatment vs. Michael Flynn's treatment, for example), it's hard to make that claim with any credibility.

I know it's hard for toadies like you, but imagine that somebody is not "loyal" to Trump or Obama, but to the republic...

A tough thought experiment, I know.

[Tarkan]

For example, take James Comey. As Director of the FBI, he was nominally subordinate to the Attorney General and the Department of Justice. As was McCabe and the anti-Trump cabal. In actuality, they were functionally a rogue cabal operating outside of any actual governmental or legal control. Not accountable to the courts, not accountable to the Legislative Branch, and not accountable to the Executive Branch. Because Comey briefed the (Obama holdover) DNI, you could maybe make a weak claim that there was at least a little bit of cross (Executive Branch) oversight, but given that the cabal members (re: Sussman) lied to the FISA court and used fabricated Hillary campaign disinfo to get the whole ball rolling, and literally no one was punished legally (see Sussman's treatment vs. Michael Flynn's treatment, for example), it's hard to make that claim with any credibility.

I know it's hard for toadies like you, but imagine that somebody is not "loyal" to Trump or Obama, but to the republic...

A tough thought experiment, I know.

I know it's hard for you to get because you suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome, but I don't really care about Trump, and it's laughable that you think that James Comey is loyal to the "Republic."