Tarkan wrote: They view it as their divine mission.
Funny how divine missions tend to end in violence. Sometimes even ankle deep in heathen blood levels of violence.
But people like to believe those were the olden days. And that it takes someone being a human animal instead of a human to stoop to those levels.
So, take a graph of two poles. On one end you have "kill all Hamas", and on the other, "let Hamas kill all Jews", where would you position yourself on the line?
That's like asking me if I'd rather rape a redhead than a blonde. To which my reply would be the same as the one I am going to give you: "I would like to call my lawyer."
j/k man, it is good to exchange ideas. You know any antagonism is just internet talk, right?
Edibles 'bout to kick in, drink in my glass and no-one else in my bed so sure, I'll shoot the shit, do my € 0.02 worth of Israel-Palestine. I try to be aware of cultural biases and have tried to keep an open mind about both sides. It is very easy to think or say "I don't care, dead foreigners all look the same to me. Still don't gotta go to work tomorrow."
First off it's an old quarrel. Jesus got born in Nazareth, Bible said he was the one going up against the Abrahamic priests. Judea and shit, old crony Jew priests and this young whippersnapper claiming he's the Son of God. The region was of course ruled by the Romans. Fast forward, Jewish diaspora and them getting treated like crap a constant. By white people because those are the ones writing most of the history books I have read. 6 centuries or so later, Muhammad lives, Islam is born. Adds another chapter to the book of God. I know that during the Crusades there were Jewish people as well as Muslims in the region, the heathen thing in the second sentence of my post. Fast forward again, the Holocaust, Jewish refugees find very little places to go, Germans trying to exterminate them, anti-semitism sentiment is obvious in most of Europe. Remember that pic that got that mma fightster cancelled, hunting Jews in Eastern Europe. It is a revolting subject and it foreces one to come to grips wit the darker aspects of humanity. Israel is a post WW2 state, Palestinians have been Ottoman&Brit empires' subjects. Suffice to say, neither party is going to move out. Very few places to go and start your own country nowadays. Neighbouring countries think Palestinians make bad guests and they have their own domestic issues, even past Arab spring, one of which is their stance re: Israel, being the arch enemy and main scapegoat (Mossad did it!) for many Middle East regimes for quite a while.
Second, it's a juxtaposition of political systems. Israel vs the Gaza strip government. Israel seems like a vibrant Western democracy, Golda Meir ran the place back in what?, I remember reading Haaretz in the early 2000s figuring a free foreign news paper is a free news paper. Fcuk, they partake in Euro Vision, transsexual person won it for them back in 1998. Hamas came up like a grass roots thing (but sponsored by Iran, no?) promising something else than the corrupt older/other thing they had going. I am not up to speed on the subject. That'll be the edibles. They are Shiite Muslims, like the Protestants of Islam. I am solely going off of stereotypes here but I doubt there is much LGBTQA+ representation. Maybe the Palestinians have a free press, exposing public figures engaged in illegal behavior I dunno. Maybe they do have LGBTQA+ representation, I dunno. Mind's eye it's probably austere dudes, serious people. They have the birth rates going for them though.
But yeah, having a historic political grievance and the old bosses not changing much but growing fat on kickbacks, sure, let's give this new guy a chance, he sounds hardcore. I can dig that, you hear that kinda talk in the most Western of nation states. And he/they have the ideology and the outside support and let's face it, if you grow up in a place like the Palestine I grew up seeing on tv, yeah, that die on your feet, not on your knees stuff probably hits different, so there will always be volunteers for the cause. Anyone with career prospects 'd leave. But there is more to life than leaving the place you call home and make money. Even then. There are cadres, part of the organisation is clandestine, armed struggle against a modern state with mandatory service that has the full support of the USA. There is no "keep dying until they grow tired of killing us and go home" option. I know that grow tired instead of lose domestic support sounds very callous but we are exchanging ideas here.
And there are the strategies. They do not have to be logical. For Israel it's easy, maintain territorial integrity and limit (first off, your own) casualties, have the politicians sign off on budgets. For the Palestinians/Hamas it is different. I know they have a charter and want to destroy all of Israel. But I saw an interview with an Israeli spy master that had talked with the opposing side. Spook said the Palestinian dude (not Hamas) said he knew they were never going to win but victory for them was knowing the other side suffered. Shiite Islam has a fatalistic side to it. That'd be the death cult thing. It is a hard one to crack and I certainly am no theologian. But then again, we had our religious wars with the Protestant scum so there should be some way of life to be found. Again, I kid but there are Christian, Jewish and other minorities present in the Middle East. Israel has significant numbers of both Ethiopian and Russian immigrants. Racist angle was more obvious in Algeria IMO, I can understand French people, dunno about Middle Easterners. Yo Tark, you think Palestinians are Africans? LOL
Anyways, Palestinians/Hamas do not have an air force or armored or other divisions. They are aware that the goal of terrorism is upping the violence so moderates get tuned out on both sides and more violence is/seems the only solution. The cruelty being the point. There is no collateral damage, charter says
all Jews, meanwhile every single one of your own (civilian, right?) casualties is a martyr. The other side has chosen to abide by self-imposed rules of engagement and wants to avoid media outrage, both foreign and domestic. It is I think fair to say there is systemic violence involved in maintaining the state of Israel and that Hamas is by all means the underdog. Hamas shit about slitting some kaffir throat might play in the region, I dunno, haven't looked at gore in ages, Israel was fast to pump out the IR footage of terrorists getting zapped like bugs. Terrorism is funny like that.
Both sides are not and cannot be held up to the same level of standards. Israel being a modern Western democracy is forced to choose the high way. I of course identify most with them. If I were an Israeli taxpayer seeing the carnage, I'd might get a gun. Or more ammo. Doubt that'd change much if I were to identify as me but with the cut penis with or without the curly sideburns, a single mom, a queer person or some Palestinian trying to make it over there. If I'd be a Palestinian I'd probably be dead or in some grey site courtesy of Israel. Or maybe not, I dunno. Getting a tad dramatic her, damned ebidles. So I chalk your choice up as those posts calling for American troops to dip bullets in pork fat. It appeals to base instincts. It is fueled in part by propaganda. Professionals probably cringed and got on with the job. There are better bulk lubricants, I know that much.
So the conclusion: I cannot answer your question Tarkan.
I understand the viewpoints are set in stone tablets and chances of compromise are impacted by every instance of violence. That is why I said the cycle continues in my first post.
I hope at some point moderates will prevail, maybe modern technology will help in crossing bridges and fostering understanding. Maybe future generations will set aside ancient grievances and come to understand there is a collective bigger pie to divvy up. Izzy mdma, some hashish, couple of olive-skinned curly-haired mynxes, sign me up for that, screw all them dead old fucks wasting their lives on whose grandpappy owned what piece of rock-strewn goat pasture hill.
skynet prompt: witty line, a bit offensive, medium levels of spelling error, Rastafy by 10 % or so
