This might suprise a lot of you, but I'm for student loan..

[Alphabet]

..forgiveness.

I shouldn't even come to having to take out a loan to be forgiven. We need a civilian version of the GI Bill, which I used, and feel it's fucking bullshit that the same, or something very similar, isn't afforded to everyone. I would even extend that to trades.

Full ride. Housing and chow stipend. No punishment or garnishing of aid if you want to work part time for beer or weed money.

I'd rather the tax money I'm going to be extorted for going to the advancement of American kids since i have to pay it anyway, than another bomber, or naval ship or sending that money off to Israel, South Korea, Ukraine, etc...etc..

I also think that it's fair that it isn't a free for all either. You should be either a resident, citizen, or in the process. No coming here, getting it, then fucking off back home. Should also be some kind of early on testing to identify who is college material, and who is trades. No lifetime students either. Aid should be related to field of study and time required to attain it. Should also be relevant. No,.we're not paying for your PhD in 14th Century African Lesbian Poets in Europe, and their contribution to German Society.

Fight me.

[Kurt]

Yep. Its gotta be all trades.
We had a system slip in that relies on debt for everything. Easy credit increases prices and fucks about 99% of us (some get fucked harder).

Hell, I'd be for debt relief for like a skidloader and lawnmower + van for someone who wants to work but cant hack a classroom of any type.

[Alphabet]

Yep. Its gotta be all trades.

Hell, I'd be for debt relief for like a skidloader and lawnmower + van for someone who wants to work but cant hack a classroom of any type.

Yep. If you're going to take our money and spend it, spend it here.

For shit like that.

[ROB]

Let all loan debt be bankruptable. Then you will see responsibility.

Alternatively, act like a civilised country and give all education free.

[Kurt]

Let all loan debt be bankruptable. Then you will see responsibility.

Alternatively, act like a civilised country and give all education free.

Yep. If student loan debt allowed bankrupt-able protections then driving someone to poverty because of a loan would be seen as a risk.

I would really like to see things useful for all be "free". Like medical, agricultural and environmental professions would be a good start.

And might as well give the Skidloader / Van person something too. 0% for first loan or something. But we cannot forget those people either.

[snaark]

Alternatively, act like a civilised country and give all education free.

Like Australia? Funny, I don't recall my undergraduate degree being free.

Education should free and uniform (neither of which is true in Australia, incidentally). That said, one-off debt forgiveness is grossly unfair. What about the people who just finished paying off theirs? Or the ones that haven't even graduated yet? Sorry, but this just some flagrant vote-buying bullshit.

[snaark]

I would really like to see things useful for all be "free". Like medical, agricultural and environmental professions would be a good start.

A few countries are experimenting with this now. When I went uni in Australia the cost of an undergraduate degree was proportional to how much they expected you to earn afterwards, i.e. medicine and law were most expensive, followed by engineering then the hard sciences. Liberal arts was almost free. Now they try to subsidise useful degrees like nursing, whereas liberal arts have increased in cost. Still, most subjects are still expensive, about the same as the US but less than the UK.

In German uni is still completely free. Someone in Australia asked me once how the government can afford this. I said by not subsidising public golf courses. There's a cost to everything I guess. I do miss cheap golf though.

[Alphabet]

Part of the program can be a reduction in income taxes until the equivalent cost of the education those that paid their own way is compensated.

[gnaruki]

Don’t you need a license to golf in Germany? I wish the US had that requirement. There are some real goons out on the public tracks these days.

Back on topic -

https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/77-of-us-youth-unqualified-for-military-service/ Oof! How to pull out of that nose dive?

America’s education system overall is in decline. It needs a major overhaul which is a daunting job. The K-12 system is currently failing to educate the majority of kids. How can any sort of post high school education system succeed when a growing number of graduates aren’t ready for lower division college courses or even an electrician apprenticeship? I’ve heard that some college freshman level English professors are having to “catch up” their students from a middle school literacy level.

But, I’m all for some type of appropriately subsidized higher education scheme which would create public benefits.

[snaark]

Part of the program can be a reduction in income taxes until the equivalent cost of the education those that paid their own way is compensated.

That's how it's done in Australia. You still accrue interest of course, albeit at a pretty low rate. Other than that it's just a loan by another name so I don't see much difference to the American system.

[snaark]

Don’t you need a license to golf in Germany?

That's true! It's called a Platzreife. I gave up playing golf here. It's stupidly expensive and mostly for posers.

[ROB]

Like Australia? Funny, I don't recall my undergraduate degree being free.

Funny, I don't remember saying Australia was either civilised OR one to be emulating on education.

That said, one-off debt forgiveness is grossly unfair. What about the people who just finished paying off theirs? Or the ones that haven't even graduated yet? Sorry, but this just some flagrant vote-buying bullshit.

So are free vaccines for smallpox.

All those other people died. We should have to too.

Such a fucking retarded argument.

[snaark]

Which government gave smallpox vaccines to buy votes? So to extend your analogy it would be ok to give smallpox vaccines to one cohort, but not the ones who came before or after them? Do you even read what you write, or you just reflexively call every argument you disagree with retarded?

[ROB]

Which government gave smallpox vaccines to buy votes? So to extend your analogy it would be ok to give smallpox vaccines to one cohort, but not the ones who came before or after them? Do you even read what you write, or you just reflexively call every argument you disagree with retarded?

Nice attempt to move the goal posts.

The point is, we do good things for the now generation, even though their parents and grandparents didn't get it, because that is the right thing to do. It's not a difficult concept.

And yeah, I do reflexively call retareded arguments retarded. Retard.

[el3so]

Easy credit increases prices and fucks about 99% of us (some get fucked harder).

More money to go round even if part of it isn't real.

I am a believer in your lawnmower and van loan kind of deal. It would get gamed like all schemes/programs do but I like the idea of it.

What about the people who just finished paying off theirs? Or the ones that haven't even graduated yet? Sorry, but this just some flagrant vote-buying bullshit.

So are free vaccines for smallpox.

Never had smallpox but doubt there is a lot of small print and signatures involved in getting it. Maybe it has a vote-buying ring to it, kind of like promising to free all those people incarcerated for pot. Wouldn't bet on all those stoners bothering (with registering) to vote but I'm not up for election.

Tax money gets spent all the time. Some of it will go to things I might not agree with, understand or benefit from. But such is life, no?

As long as the loans were paid off, I wouldn't stress over it either way.