This might suprise a lot of you, but I'm for student loan..

[ROB]

The loan companies lobbied to get government to make the loans non-bankruptable so people can never get out of paying them.

That is the very definition of rent-seeking.

Then they became predatory.

It is logical that a libertarian like Alphabet would be for forgiveness as they were not procured in a true free market.

It is also logical that anybody who is not a cunt would support forgiveness.

[el3so]

It is logical that a libertarian like Alphabet would be for forgiveness as they were not procured in a true free market.

So the government paying off the loans makes it better?

True free market is pink unicorn stuff.

[Alphabet]

I said, in my initial post, that if I have to pay taxes, then I would rather it go towards "free" education for Americans than another bomber, fighting ship, or defending another country's borders.

Not a loan. No interest. Nothing. As long as you have presented the aptitude for your desired discipline.

The govt isn't paying shit. The govt doesn't make money. They take it. That's my money.

You want real deal free market? OK, I would prefer that over having my money extorted through the barrel of a gun. Leave it up to churches, charities, fraternal organizations, trade guilds, or the student themselves to pay for their education. Remove the government completely, and if student X decides to incur debt to a bank to pay for their education, that's on them. Or not incur debt.

[el3so]

As long as you have presented the aptitude for your desired discipline.

I dunno man, that sounds slithery sloping towards some kind of caste system to me.
Who judges the aptitude? And who judges them?

The govt doesn't make money. They take it. That's my money.

Funny, I don't see your name on it anywhere ;-)

You want real deal free market?

Nope.

Leave it up to churches, charities, fraternal organizations, trade guilds (...) to pay for their education.

So... they all have their own currency? Or do they rely on dues, membership fees, gifts, tithing and/or tax cuts or support and still use dollars? That sounds like taxes with extra steps. And who is going to enforce payment or be the judge in case of conflict?

Remove the government completely, and if student X decides to incur debt to a bank to pay for their education, that's on them. Or not incur debt.

I lean towards collective bargaining being better bargaining and it being hard to get more collective than a government.

[Michael]

Seems to me the real first step would be to recognize that Big Education isn't much different from Big Business, Big Oil, Big Pharma or any other Big whatever and there isn't any rational reason to expect them to act any differently.

[ROB]

It is logical that a libertarian like Alphabet would be for forgiveness as they were not procured in a true free market.

So the government paying off the loans makes it better?

Yes. It rectifies the problem that they created.

[snaark]

It is logical that a libertarian like Alphabet would be for forgiveness as they were not procured in a true free market.

So the government paying off the loans makes it better?

Yes. It rectifies the problem that they created.

Yup, it's very much the duct-tape of solutions. I think you mean it alleviates the outcome of the problem for a small proportion of the people affected. Rectifying the problem would be make higher education free.

[ROB]

It is logical that a libertarian like Alphabet would be for forgiveness as they were not procured in a true free market.

So the government paying off the loans makes it better?

Yes. It rectifies the problem that they created.

Yup, it's very much the duct-tape of solutions. I think you mean it alleviates the outcome of the problem for a small proportion of the people affected. Rectifying the problem would be make higher education free.

Agreed. But let's start with possibly winnable outcomes. Then we can get onto systemic issues.