Should You Shoot First Or Second?

[RYP]

People are quicker when reacting than when initiating
By Doreen Walton
Science reporter, BBC News

Roy rogers
Scientists were inspired by the idea of reaction times in Hollywood shootouts

Inspired by Hollywood cowboy films, researchers have delved into the science of gun fights.

Scientists discovered that people move faster when reacting to something than when they perform "planned actions".

In an experimental "duel", published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B, they studied the speed of these two types of movement.

As well as unpicking Wild West mythology, scientists hope the findings will shed light on movement disorders.

The team say the results could help diagnose conditions such as Parkinson's disease.

Gun-free duel

Pairs of participants were put in a button-pressing competition with each other. Each was secretly given instructions of how long to wait before pushing a row of buttons.

"There was no 'go' signal," said Dr Andrew Welchman from the University of Birmingham, who led the research.

"All they had to go by was either their own intention to move or a reaction to their opponent - just like in the gunslingers legend."

Those who reacted to their opponent were on average 21 milliseconds faster than those who initiated the movement.


The person who draws second is going to die
Dr Andrew Welchman
University of Birmingham

"I wasn't expecting that we would find such a clear difference," said Dr Welchman.

"In our everyday lives we have this constant battle between things we decide to do and things we have to do to avoid a negative consequence."

"If you're making a cup of tea that would be an intentional decision. If we then knock the cup of tea off the table, the reactive comes into play as we try to catch the cup as fast as possible."

No consolation

The implications for gunslingers though are not straightforward, and the outcome of a Hollywood shoot-out, it seems, is based more on myth than science.

Dr Andrew Welchman explains the laboratory gunfight (Footage: BBSRC)

Dr Welchman explained that it took around 200 milliseconds to respond to what an opponent was doing, so, in a gunfight, the 21 millisecond reactionary advantage would be unlikely to save you.

"The person who draws second is going to die. They'll die happy that they are the faster person to move but it's not much consolation in this context," said Dr Welchman.

The scientists want to find out if there are two different brain processes underlying the two different types of action. They think there could be evidence for this in people with Parkinson's disease.

Dr Welchman says there is evidence that Parkinson's patients are more impaired in intentional movement than in reactive ones.

"If you're someone who's going to develop Parkinson's disease, this difference might get exaggerated," he said. "[So] you might be able to get an earlier idea that there could be problems with movement."

[Devlin]

Break to cover ! Get to cover and then fight back.

[Sri Lanky]

I don't know. When I got shot at,and I've mentioned this before,I stood there like a stunned cunt. Five shots fired and they all missed. Two whizzed by my head so they were kill shots(is there any other kind?). I know it's not the same as actually getting shot but it still fucked with my head.

The worst part was having to make a statement after for the police so they could cover their ass....while an uzi was pointed at me. I gave them exactly what they wanted to hear. Thank God I hid the dope.

[Sri Lanky]

How did this come about? I was young and stupid and bought drugs off the wrong people in a third world country. Lesson learned.

[JamesInTheWorld]

Scientists discovered that people move faster when reacting to something than when they perform "planned actions".

Sure, but the reaction is muscle memory from training and experience - no training and no experience = you just pee when they say "draw"

~James

[JOHN O]

I'll never forget the first time I got shot at...........................I heard the first round crack as it passed my head, I saw the bark fly off of the tree I was next to on the second round. My next memory was being on the ground and trying to disappear...........................then I heard the scariest sound of the day................Tops voice yelling at me to "Get The Fuck Up and Get in The Fight or I'll Shoot You Myself"! That was a bad day but getting shot at seemed to get easier as time went on.

[RYP]

Its just not fair unless they shoot first. But the hollywood is myth is that they always miss then you get to make that little speech before you gun them down.

[docjoyce]

SRI I have a sim experience.


At 13 I used to hang out at a pal of mines Ranch near Rose Bud Res in SD. His parents were on a vacation in cancun or some shit, so we were spending the days roaming around shooting prarie dogs and what not. I had been shooting pistols and shotguns, rifles and all manner of weapons my entire life starting at age six.

About midnight or so one night we heard a car roll up to their gas pump. Jay being used to the locals coming up for gas, loped over to his .45, put it in his back belt loop, and went out to get some gas for them.

I grabbed a nice ranch mini and kinda hung out by the front door and watched. Jay took about fifteen steps to the cordova when the Indians decided to recreate little big horn. Two came out shooting. I stood there for almost five seconds, forever with my Jaw just wide open. I can remember watching Jay shooting back, and screaming at me to use my gun.

The knarly part is I unloaded my clip on the car, never really put anyone in my site picture. We called the cops, the they sent out the Bureau Of Indian Affairs cops, who took a statement, and shrugged it off.

Reading "On Killing" years later the entire thing makes sense, but Jay who is a PJ now, gives me shit any time we talk about how I could shoot an entire clip at humans and miss from 20 yards, but hit a Prarie dog at 250 yards with the same gun.

[ktrout]

Damn, I considered bicycling across Pine Ridge but went through the Black Hills instead, passing through Crow Creek.

[JamesInTheWorld]

But the hollywood is myth is that they always miss then you get to make that little speech before you gun them down.

Or say something cool like “Surfs Up!”

Its just not fair unless they shoot first.

Fair is for the guy that comes in last

~JITW

[Magic Wombat]

Fair is for the guy that comes in last

[coldharvest]

The famous scene in The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean when Bean shoots Bad Bob (not Dirty Bad Bob the Mexican) in the back from a barn loft
One of the Judge's buddies says "You never gave him a chance"
and Bean says "Nope and I wasn't gonna".

[Lost Boy]

Its just not fair unless they shoot first. But the hollywood is myth is that they always miss then you get to make that little speech before you gun them down.

Speeches like the ones Samuel L. Jackson delivers in Pulp Fiction. :)