Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanistan

[Lost Boy]

US Weapons:


1) The M-16 rifle: Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over here. The sand is everywhere. You feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. We lack the ability to mount the various optical gun sights and weapons lights on the picatinny rails, but the weapon itself is for shit in a desert environment.

And we all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round "MMPOS" (Mickey Mouse piece of shit). Poor penetration on the cinder block structures common over here and even torso hits can't be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. (Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of opiate use. Absolutely dead solid perfect. They're batshit crazy to begin with, then high on drugs, and me with a 5.56 that won't knock em down, and jams a lot).

2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial dis-assembly (that's a lot of fun in the middle of a firefight).

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert environment; but we all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common here, though you never see it in the news. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect. (Great weapon - I carry one everywhere I go.)

5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!) Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round really chews up the structures over here.

6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma Deuce" is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper - puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater. When we are being shot at, we don't want the shooter wounded, we want the M-----F----- dead . . . .

7) The .45 auto pistol: Thumbs way, way up. Still the best pistol around, hands down. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, it can reliably be expected to put the asshole down with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model 1911 45's are being re-issued en masse.

[WONDER WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO SET UP A "SEND A MARINE A 1911" PROGRAM? WITH THE COLT 1911 CENTENNIAL TOMORROW, HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE WILLNG TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTHS ARE AND DO SOMETHING TO REALLY SUPPORT THE TROOPS?]

8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in great quantities, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and we love the 7.62 round. See 6 above.

9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemies. It is definitely here to stay.

10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have been using them heavily with great results. Rumor has it a Marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record for confirmed kills with OVER 100. It has to be a Marine, doggie snipers can't hit shit, compared to a Marine.

11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as shit to wear, almost unbearable in the summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for head shots whenever possible. All the bullshit about the "old" body armor making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in most cases.

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy are being whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams.


13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations. A buddy carries a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loves it. I can't help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance are 50 or more years old!! With all our technology, it's the WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!! The infantry fighting is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown. When they get that close, I drop the M-4 and start working with the shotgun.

Bad Guy Weapons:


1) Mostly AK47's. The entire country is an arsenal. Every asshole and his brother Ahmed has one. Works far better in the desert than the M16; and the .308 Russian-round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly shoots like shit. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles (Iran, again).

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple, reliable and as common as dog shit. The enemy responded to our up-armored Humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. The bastards are still killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot have been found in abandoned cars. The enemy takes 2 or 3 155mm artillery shells and wires them together. Most are detonated by cell phone, and the explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over here. Lately, they are using much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically designed to penetrate armor. (Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges, in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all the roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.)

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of our NCO's lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". The base is hit almost daily by mortar and rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (it does). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.

Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better now.

Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and "Google Earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys? The[ey] are mostly "foreigners", non-Afghan Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe ). Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in various "sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.). These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.

The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian) are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. They have been fighting the Russians for years. The terrorists have been very adept at infiltrating the Afghan local govt's, the police forces and the Army. They have had a spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's.

Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every time! Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing AK's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe .[our] defenses. They get mowed down like grass every time (see the M2 [50 cal heavy machine gun] and M240 [Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO] above). Jordan's base was hit like this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting Room).

We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre Gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all.

Fun facts: The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber shit. The new strategy is just simple attrition. The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and especially Mosques are locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo, and flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard, whatsoever for inflicting civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder, without hesitation, anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans. Kidnapping of family members, especially children, is common to influence people they are trying to influence but can't reach, such as local govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc. The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". We know that if captured we will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. They openly offer bounties for anyone who brings in a live American serviceman. This motivates the criminal element, who otherwise don't give a shit about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common criminals and sold to them. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not an option.

[Conversely] The [coalition] Afghani's are a mixed bag. Some fight well; others aren't worth a damn. Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are getting better. Many Afghani's were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces went right up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential increase in good intel because the Afghani's are sick of the insurgent attacks against civilians.

Morale [of US troops]: I can tell you that morale among our guys is very high. We know that we are winning, and winning decisively. It really, really pisses us off with what we see in the American press, whom we almost universally view as against us. The embedded reporters are despised and distrusted. . We are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then we see shit like "Are we losing in Iraq " on TV and the print media. For the most part, we are satisfied with our equipment, food, and leadership. Bottom line though, and we all agree here, is that there are not enough guys here to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Afghanisan and Pakistan. The Iranians and the Syrians just can't stand the thought of Afganistan being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there).

Anyway, that's it, hope you found it interesting.

[JamesInTheWorld]

That is an excellent AAR - do you know where it is from?

~James G

[el3so]

Life would be easy indeed if an ongoing multinational military operation's success would be determined by the issuing of .45 rather than 9mm small arms.

Who are the bad guys? (...) Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.)

Yeah right.

This "report" has been posted on civilian gun-forums for years, plenty people consider it fake.

[Lost Boy]

That is an excellent AAR - do you know where it is from?

~James G

Not sure. Some dude in my office forwarded it to me. I thought it was an interesting read and worth posting, even if the source is sketchy.

[Lost Boy]

Life would be easy indeed if an ongoing multinational military operation's success would be determined by the issuing of .45 rather than 9mm small arms.

Who are the bad guys? (...) Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.)

Yeah right.

This "report" has been posted on civilian gun-forums for years, plenty people consider it fake.

'plenty people.' LOL

Plenty of people also voted for Barack Obama. Plenty of people still think that he's an economic genius and is going to solve all of our debt crisis problems and pay their rent and utilities. Plenty of people smoke crack and think Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are cool.

Whether the source is credible or not, a lot of what it says about the weapons and their different limitations and capabilities is accurate. I found a few errors, such as referring to the AK-47 round as the '.308', or referring to the M-4's 5.56x45mm NATO round as the '.223' (despite popular belief, they are different) but other than that, it was an entertaining read. If I cared about your pointless criticism I would have posted it on the main forum instead of 'guns and weapons.' Go push a little kid in the mud and steal her candy.

[Hitoru]

They lost me @ plenty people.
Pretty lame.

[JamesInTheWorld]

Some things about the M-4 seem right but others seem a bit off

Like having problems shooting through heavy objects - I use Green Tip 5.56 for stuff like that, just a few days ago I shot right through a Ceramic plate with some

Most of the jamming problems are directly related to keeping the M4 clean and well oiled, fire it 2 times and let one sit for a week and it will have problems feeding rounds - that is where the AK beats every other weapons platform in the world - you can fire a thousand rounds through it every week, leave it in a damp conex between shooting it and it will fire without problems


~JITW

[Lost Boy]

Some things about the M-4 seem right but others seem a bit off

Like having problems shooting through heavy objects - I use Green Tip 5.56 for stuff like that, just a few days ago I shot right through a Ceramic plate with some

Most of the jamming problems are directly related to keeping the M4 clean and well oiled, fire it 2 times and let one sit for a week and it will have problems feeding rounds - that is where the AK beats every other weapons platform in the world - you can fire a thousand rounds through it every week, leave it in a damp conex between shooting it and it will fire without problems


~JITW

Are the Green Tip 5.56 the rounds that are tipped with Tungsten?

[Atrax]

Pretty sure I saw this torn apart on Socnet a while back. Like, years ago back. With Afghanistan switched for Iraq. Note the last paragraph, the author's rhetorical "Are we losing in Iraq" question. When was the last time any mainstream reporter asked that shit?

Additionally, his line about the 240 "more and more being dismounted by the Infantry" is weak as fuck. I was never a Marine so if you DevilDogs want to correct me then please do. But on the Army side of the house the 240B is humped every damn time by the Weapons Squad of a line infantry platoon.

I could get a better AAR from my local airsoft club.

[diamondcutter13]

Some things about the M-4 seem right but others seem a bit off

Like having problems shooting through heavy objects - I use Green Tip 5.56 for stuff like that, just a few days ago I shot right through a Ceramic plate with some

Most of the jamming problems are directly related to keeping the M4 clean and well oiled, fire it 2 times and let one sit for a week and it will have problems feeding rounds - that is where the AK beats every other weapons platform in the world - you can fire a thousand rounds through it every week, leave it in a damp conex between shooting it and it will fire without problems


~JITW

Are the Green Tip 5.56 the rounds that are tipped with Tungsten?

M855 green tip have a steel or tungsten penetrator inside the copper casing but are not designed specifically as armour piercing. That is the Black Tip - M995 (if you are talking about US ammo.)

This AAR and the ones like it wasn't news back in 2003, it just keeps hanging around the internet like a bad smell. Many of the "new" developments like using M14s again is old info. The Army, Marines, and Navy have all moved on to different platforms like the excellent M110 SASS from KAC.

[RYP]

I am pretty sure I saw a version of this email passed around in Iraq. The guy makes two mistakes. A) He doesn't include the full spectrum of stand off weapons, field support and technology available to the common soldier (as in if he using his M4 and worse yet a pistol he has already begun to lose by the use of force, instead of the enemies will to concede) and that B) the enemy is actually using the weight of that system required to support western soldiers in the field to bleed him morally,ethically and financially. So "winning" by the local's definition is much different that what a soldier thinks is "winning".

[diamondcutter13]

Other weapons specific blogs have discussed this to death. Many of these points were raised in AARs from Somalia in 1993 by the US Army, regurgitated again online (supposedly) by the Marines who fought through Falujah in 2003 and so on into Afghanistan. Not saying that there is no truth to some of the issues but the authenticity of the anecdote is highly questionable. CJ Chivers raises some good points in the article below that provides links to other articles for discussion, particularly on the M16/M4 issue.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/examining-the-complaints-about-american-rifle-reliability/

[RYP]

M4/AR16 was designed for something very different. Beretta 9mm was cheapest "NATO" humanitarian round even tho Sig won.

Up close the 45 is better, 10 even better if you need to punch through things AK is best assault. B52 even better.

[Lost Boy]

M4/AR16 was designed for something very different. Beretta 9mm was cheapest "NATO" humanitarian round even tho Sig won.

Up close the 45 is better, 10 even better if you need to punch through things AK is best assault. B52 even better.

...and of course, our good friends Fat Man and Little Boy are quite good at settling arguments, but why stop there when we can send our friend MIRV down the enemy's throat.

A friend of mine describes the M4/M16 Stoner platform as a polished turd. When it first experienced reliability problems from the beginning of its introduction in Vietnam, they made the mistake of trying to fix the problems and improve on the design, rather than scrap it as a bad idea and go with a better infantry rifle.

[Woodsman]

[quote="Lost Boy"
A friend of mine describes the M4/M16 Stoner platform as a polished turd. [/quote]