Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanistan

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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby RYP » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:22 pm

Never liked the concept or the feel of the M4. I have shot a full auto, silenced M4 that was dramatically modified which was better, but I still think stripping and cleaning one reveals the weirdness of its design.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby BillyOblivion » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:27 am

Lost Boy wrote:A friend of mine describes the M4/M16 Stoner platform as a polished turd. When it first experienced reliability problems from the beginning of its introduction in Vietnam, they made the mistake of trying to fix the problems and improve on the design, rather than scrap it as a bad idea and go with a better infantry rifle.


I don't care for the M16, but I've put 1000s of rounds through them on military firing ranges all over the US.

It's not a polished turd. It is, when used within it's design envelope, a precision instrument. Yeah, I'd rather carry and AK because I fucking HATE cleaning guns, and some physiological issues mean that the extra precision of the instrument is wasted on me.

But we DID manage to clear Falluja against an emplaced (more or less) enemy who had AKs. If the M16s where so jam-o-matic you'd think we'd have seen more dead marines. We haven't because the Marines do weapons maintenance. And so do the Soldiers. Air Force? Well, let's be reasonable. Once you wipe the rifle down with a silicon rag once or twice a day and keep the barrel clear it'll function.

And then it's all about the operator. Same with the pistol. I'd rather face almost any internet 1911 lover with a hand tuned kimber 1911 drawing out of a custom milt sparks holster than a Army SF guy with an issue Beretta.

Fuck, I own a Beretta, and I'd take it over that 1911.

Yeah, it would be a better if the military would switch to something like the Sig 550 in 6.5 or 6.8. And if they'd dump the Beretta for the Glock--it is kinda funny how the same arm chair types who whinge about the AR being failure prone get all tumescent about the 1911 for the same sort of environment.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby RYP » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:01 pm

Grenades. No cleaning required.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby lok8 » Thu May 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Grenades. No cleaning required.


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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Fri May 13, 2011 10:26 am

i am all for bringing the Flamethrower back



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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby deselby » Fri May 13, 2011 1:25 pm

Smells like bullshit to me, maybe even IO bullshit.

First, the thing about "point blank" RPG attacks. I could be wrong, but don't RPGs have to travel a distance before they're armed?

Second, the "Hamas, Hezbollah" thing about most of the bad guys being Arabs. I seriously doubt that most of the fighters now in Afghanistan are Arabs.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Fri May 13, 2011 6:34 pm

deselby wrote: I could be wrong, but don't RPGs have to travel a distance before they're armed?


Yes


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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby Jefe » Sat May 14, 2011 4:54 pm

The original post was to me, clearly from a Marine in the field. Unsurprisingly, armchair warriors from the BFC rip it up from their basements.

Yeah, a few technical points are wrong. Most 20 year olds (the average Warfighter) don't get detailed training to the point of .223 is actually different than 5.56.

To me, it was clearly from the field and not the basement.

And RPGs do not have to travel hardly at all before arming and yes, point blank range is accurate to the extent that beyond 2-300 Meters they are not effective on a moving target.

Just a question: How many of the critics on this thread have actively engaged the enemy in Afghanistan using or receiving the weapons systems the orignal report card addressed? My guess is the original poster and pretty much nobody else.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby deselby » Sun May 15, 2011 4:44 pm

Jefe wrote:The original post was to me, clearly from a Marine in the field. Unsurprisingly, armchair warriors from the BFC rip it up from their basements.

Yeah, a few technical points are wrong. Most 20 year olds (the average Warfighter) don't get detailed training to the point of .223 is actually different than 5.56.

To me, it was clearly from the field and not the basement.

And RPGs do not have to travel hardly at all before arming and yes, point blank range is accurate to the extent that beyond 2-300 Meters they are not effective on a moving target.

Just a question: How many of the critics on this thread have actively engaged the enemy in Afghanistan using or receiving the weapons systems the orignal report card addressed? My guess is the original poster and pretty much nobody else.


And you think the majority of the fighters in Afghanistan are Hamas/Hezbollah/Al Qaeda Arabs and not pissed-off Pashtuns?

This was probably modified from an original email from years ago when the Marines were in Iraq.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby lok8 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:19 pm

The Iranian sniper rifles and EFP's bracket the time frame nicely.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby 8mtal » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:48 am

Excellent info, forwarded to nephew in route. I'm ex-reg army (12Bravo-demo); nephew is infantry; came back with all fingers and toes from 2008 Iraq tour.

Thank you for your service, and the info.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby AztecDave » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:00 pm

Only thing wrong with the M16/M4 design is the gas operation method. If it used a buffer system (like the HK416) vice actual gas expansion into the chamber, there's no real issues. Was at the range here 2 weeks ago and put about a thousand rounds thru my M4 in a few hours. Shot very accurately out to distance (was shooting to 250-300m). No stoppages or malfunctions. But cleaning it later - was a ton of carbon buildup in/on the chamber & bolt carrier group. With a buffer system, there's no gas blowback into the chamber. I understand that there's an OTS conversion kit to convert to a buffer system. Anybody?

here's a you tube video on the HK 416
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObXZMepn ... A344528958
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby Rhah » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:24 pm

AztecDave wrote:Only thing wrong with the M16/M4 design is the gas operation method. If it used a buffer system (like the HK416) vice actual gas expansion into the chamber, there's no real issues. Was at the range here 2 weeks ago and put about a thousand rounds thru my M4 in a few hours. Shot very accurately out to distance (was shooting to 250-300m). No stoppages or malfunctions. But cleaning it later - was a ton of carbon buildup in/on the chamber & bolt carrier group. With a buffer system, there's no gas blowback into the chamber. I understand that there's an OTS conversion kit to convert to a buffer system. Anybody?

here's a you tube video on the HK 416
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObXZMepn ... A344528958


Do you mean a piston system? The M16/M4/AR15 already has a buffer, it's in the stock. I'm pretty sure Bushmaster and CMMG makes a piston conversion kit for the M16/AR15. I'm sure there are more companies out there, those are the only two I can remember off the top of my head.
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby AztecDave » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:38 am

You mean to tell me there's a springy thing in the butt stock of the 15 odd M16s and M4s I've been issued and qualified with in the last 25 yrs I've been in the Army? Wow. I need to check that out the next time disassemble and clean it!
The real Army, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the army in which I should like to fight.”
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Re: Combat weapons "report card" from a Marine in Afghanista

Postby Rhah » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:42 pm

Lmao!
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