Anyone have experience with one of these?

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Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby Lost Boy » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:24 pm

At first glance, this looks pretty cool.

http://www.mgi-military.com/

Check out the video on their website.
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby Chimborazo » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:22 am

No experience here, but just posted it somewhere else. I does look pretty cool.
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:19 am

These mods so you can use AK mags in M-4's have been around for a while

It is a cool engineering challenge - but why?



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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby BillyOblivion » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:59 am

JamesInTheWorld wrote:These mods so you can use AK mags in M-4's have been around for a while
It is a cool engineering challenge - but why?
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There is a large body of shooters who are trained to the M4, and who have a LOT of trouble transitioning to the AK--many have the ingrained "safe off, fire, safe on, safe off, fire, safe on, move, rinse, lather, repeat" and get frustrated as all get out trying to jack off the AK like that.

They like the M4/16, they know where all the switches are etc. and there are a LOT of them that either believe that for short range engagements the 7.62x39 is better (it probably is if you have to shoot through shit) or that work in an environment where 7.62x39 is more readily available. The two biggest--no, three biggest problems with getting the M4 to run 7.62x39 are:
  • The 7.62x39 round is tapered more than the 5.56 (makes extraction a bit easier) (IIRC the 5.56 is VERY slightly tapered, but ICBW) this means that just converting AR mags by switching followers isn't as reliable as one would like. Leading to:
  • Magazine availability. If you're using a rifle designed to use "special" magazines it can be hard to guarantee a supply.
  • AK rounds are not nearly as clean as AR rounds (the powder/residue).

The first two are "fixed" by designing the lower (and if necessary the bolt face) to use AK magazines--that way even if the rifle/lower manufacturer goes out of business you can still get new magazines. The last is fixed by going to a pushrod system for the M4. Which means you've basically turned your M4 into a AK with M4 ergonomics. Which isn't a bad thing if most of your shooters are indoctrinated into the cult of the AR.

I don't care for the AR for personal reasons (nothing wrong with it, I just don't like the way that damn recoil spring sounds/feels when it actuates), and prefer the AK. I was starting to like my Sig until I got a job here he hopolophobe land.

And no, I have no experience with one. You want an AK, get an AK. If you have someone tune them properly and use good ammo they are sufficiently accurate. Well, if you are. I'm not a sniper-grade marksman, so they work fine for me.
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby Caliban » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:16 am

JamesInTheWorld wrote:These mods so you can use AK mags in M-4's have been around for a while

It is a cool engineering challenge - but why?



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Im with you there too. It just seems a bit finicky. However, the belt fed looks fun
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:29 am

BillyOblivion wrote:There is a large body of shooters who are trained to the M4, and who have a LOT of trouble transitioning to the AK--many have the ingrained "safe off, fire, safe on, safe off, fire, safe on, move, rinse, lather, repeat" and get frustrated as all get out trying to jack off the AK like that. .


In my opinion that is just a poor instructor, one of the parts of my job has been training US Mil guys on the AK, PKM, RPK - a good instructor can get an experienced shooter up to speed [not "high" speed, but a Fast "Medium"] in a day

Shooting through objects can be solved with different ammo, like I said on another forum I have a couple of mags of Green-Tip that will punch through a Creamic Ballistic plate like a knife through butter

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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby BillyOblivion » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:41 pm

JamesInTheWorld wrote:
BillyOblivion wrote:There is a large body of shooters who are trained to the M4, and who have a LOT of trouble transitioning to the AK--many have the ingrained "safe off, fire, safe on, safe off, fire, safe on, move, rinse, lather, repeat" and get frustrated as all get out trying to jack off the AK like that. .


In my opinion that is just a poor instructor, one of the parts of my job has been training US Mil guys on the AK, PKM, RPK - a good instructor can get an experienced shooter up to speed [not "high" speed, but a Fast "Medium"] in a day.


I'm not going to disagree with you. You asked why someone would do this, and that's my explaination/answer.

If I can easily transition from an AK to an AR to a sub-gun and back (in training mind you, I've never been a professional gun bearer since I left the military, and even then I mostly did other stuff) then just about anyone can. But whether they're willing to, or insist on sticking with that they know is up to them.


Shooting through objects can be solved with different ammo, like I said on another forum I have a couple of mags of Green-Tip that will punch through a Creamic Ballistic plate like a knife through butter


Yes, but physics says anything a 60 to 70 grain .223 will go through, a 150 grain 7.62 will go through better, all things being equal (you'd probably have to build the AK penetrator rounds yourself, but I think you know what I mean).

I'm not disparaging the .223 here, it's a tool that works well in it's envelope. Just like the AK sucks at making head shots at 400 yards, and the .50 cal can't be used for room clearing. Well, not the same way you'd use an AK/AR/Sub-gun anyway.
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:06 pm

BillyOblivion wrote: Just like the AK sucks at making head shots at 400 yards.


true dat - mostly an ammo problem

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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby BillyOblivion » Mon May 09, 2011 8:44 am

Lost Boy wrote:At first glance, this looks pretty cool.

http://www.mgi-military.com/

Check out the video on their website.


Talked to a buddy of mine about these a couple days ago. Apparently he got a hold of one on an eval basis, and it didn't work so well. He had some mechanical issues with it, and said it was doing some keyholing.

This is 3rd hand information on a quantity one test, so FWIW.
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Re: Anyone have experience with one of these?

Postby lok8 » Thu May 12, 2011 5:08 pm

Looks like they took some tips from Robinson-

Shame they stuck with the gas tube.

While I understand the theory behind this, in practical terms seems kind of gimmicky hawking this to agencies that strap up and roll with unlimited support (and bring their own armory door to door) when making house calls.
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