Best steel for working blades

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Best steel for working blades

Postby cukros1 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:56 am

There is a very interesting test report at Bladeforums of the different steel blades. It is well worth a look.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... -quot-rope

The tests show the best steel under these test conditions is CPM s90v and CTS 20CP.

Any chance we will see a Hest folder in any of these steel varieties ?

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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby The Tourist » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:53 pm

This is a debate where I believe what people wish for is not what they are actually using.

I see lots of articles and thread responses all talking about the "latest and greatest." However, as a professional knife sharpener, those alloys are not what my clients bring to me. In the end they just want decent kitchen knives and EDC folders they find useful in the real world. In fact I just want a good jackknife, not some tarted up tactical fantasy knife.

I have always been a fan of D2. Over time most companies have gone back to it. For example, Knives of Alaska made their entire series of realistic hard-use knives out of D2. Microtech uses D2.

There are comments now claiming that CPM-S35VN is the new alloy that S30V was meant to be. I just believe we like to see something new.

The concept of "low chromium, higher carbon" alloys is good overall. Alloys like BG-42 were great for folders. In the kitchen things like VG-10 are still superior, even as a core for Japanese folded steel. But at the end of the day, we seem to always end up with useful, trouble-free knives the quietly serve us. For me it's stuff like 440C (think about the utility of the Myerchin brand) and the performance we already have with D2.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby Mikethehack » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:53 pm

I used to go around to the local abattoir and ask the lads there which brands they preferred and why, which is always a good starting point. They are the real knife professionals, imho.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby zuluninja » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:34 pm

too much steel snobism at bladeforums, seems like every week a new super-duper-mega-tough-sharpest-light-saber CPM S90-35VCR17154CMATS45 steel shows its edge over there... just another excuse to go and spend $$$ on the brand new super steel.

I have no problem with "user" steels like aus-8 (tho people love to knock on it over there) 440A,B or C, 1095, 420 HC or the new crop of low cost but very decent chinese steels. I only have 2 S30V blades, one was a good deal and the other is an old, uneducated impulse buy, those 2 are my most "exotic steel" blades. Plenty of chinese blades in my EDC rotation.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby RYP » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:01 pm

Sliepner and Niolox are not included. Ceramic can cut better than most metals..so what exactly is the test and what do we gather from all this "best" testing?

Crucible makes great steel but manufacturers can modify tempering and edge style make a difference. More importantly brittleness versus flex, granularity, corrosion resistance and price all enter into picking a "perfect" blade

and then there is no shortage of other brand names and minor mixes to complicate the mess.







Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

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What I have done is rank the steels in Categories based on edge retention cutting 5/8" manila rope. We are looking for big differences here, not ranking the steels in order such as 1,2,3,4,5. The categories or groups mean that one can expect those steels in that category to have close to the same performance as the other steels in the same category. The categories are ranked in order by edge retention, category 1 will have better performance than category 2 etc.

The Custom Phil Wilson knives in M390 (62) and ELMAX (62) are not added to the data, they wouldn't fit into any of the Categories due to the Optimal HT and cutting ability, the difference is off the scale percentage wise so it wasn't added.

The Testing Process is as follows:

Cutting 5/8" Manila rope on a Scale with wood to cut on. The scale was calibrated for the weight of the wood. Making 3 to 4 slicing cuts from back to tip using the least amount of down force needed to get the starting down force. Once that was established 20 cuts were made then down force was tested again and that continued until 20 LBS was reached.

All the knives started at 14 ~ 15 LBS of down force except for M390 because it cuts so aggressively.

Accuracy is to + or - 10 Cuts and + or - 1 LB of down force or 6%. This was verified doing a blind test of blades of unknown hardness until they were tested after. 2 blades of the same hardness and steel, sharpened the same and same model of knife.

RC hardness is + or - 1 RC on the steels that were tested as the standard of RC testing.






All edges were at 30 degrees inclusive and polished to 6000 grit on the Edge Pro, sharpness was tested by slicing TP clean.

The following data is the results that I got based on the above method, while not conclusive or the end all beat all data it is very accurate.

More steels will be added as they are tested.

Category 1

CPM-S90V (Military and Para 2) (60)
CTS-20CP (Para 2) (60)

Category 2

M390 (60)
CPM M4 (62.5)
CPM-S90V (59) (Manix 2 with 30 Degree Micro Bevel)
CPM-S60V

Category 3

Vanax 35 (59.5)


Category 4

ZDP-189 (65)
CPM-154 (62)
ELMAX (60)
CTS-XHP (Manix and Military)
Super Blue (61.5)


Category 5

S30V (60)
VG-1
CPM - D2 (62)
N690
ATS-34 (59)
CPM-S35VN (59)
N680

Category 6

INFI
154CM (61)
14C28N

Category 7

VG-10
S30V (58.5)
AUS-8A
SG-2
5160 (55)
13C26N
X-15

Category 8

H-1

Category 9

CTS-BD1
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby Woodsman » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Break the right mollusk shell and you can shave with it.

Chip some flint the right way and you can kill deer, kill men, kill buffalos, kill bear.

Steel is overrated. We don't need no stinkin' steel.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby The Tourist » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:21 pm

I always say that my future is in the past. Yes, we improve alloys, but you also have to take into consideration the HT, the blade design and geometry and the highwayman with the smile and the wet rock.

In most knife forum debates they duscuss which knife is the sharpest. After sharpening knives for almost 20 years, I'd say that a folded Japanese yanagiba is the sharpest knife in history, with a thin, polished nakiri a very close second.

The importance of that observation is the design predates modern alloys, and was usually made from white or blue steel.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby RYP » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:51 pm

"Steel is overrated. We don't need no stinkin' steel"

A real man can papercut his opponent to death


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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby kilroy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:32 pm

Woodsman wrote:Break the right mollusk shell and you can shave with it.

Chip some flint the right way and you can kill deer, kill men, kill buffalos, kill bear.

Steel is overrated. We don't need no stinkin' steel.


hundreds of militaries throughout history disagree.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby Woodsman » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:52 pm

kilroy wrote:
Woodsman wrote:Break the right mollusk shell and you can shave with it.

Chip some flint the right way and you can kill deer, kill men, kill buffalos, kill bear.

Steel is overrated. We don't need no stinkin' steel.


hundreds of militaries throughout history disagree.


They are all pussies. Just ask stapler boy above. that's my ssssstaapler.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby kilroy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:09 pm

Woodsman wrote:They are all pussies. Just ask stapler boy above. that's my ssssstaapler.


most people are more concerned with winning, staying alive, and being able to write their version of history into the books than being called a pussy by some random insignificant person hundreds of years in the future.
when they ask how you feeling
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you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby Woodsman » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:37 pm

kilroy wrote:
Woodsman wrote:They are all pussies. Just ask stapler boy above. that's my ssssstaapler.


most people are more concerned with winning, staying alive, and being able to write their version of history into the books than being called a pussy by some random insignificant person hundreds of years in the future.



Newsflash: They are dead.

Besides that, none of them would have ever lived had it not been for indigenous materials such as I mentioned above.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby RYP » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:31 am

there is no "best" steel. You chose the maker who understands your application and makes a knife for that application. Like Jeff Randall and Mike Perrin who make spring steel knives for common sense working folks who know how to touch up a well hardened piece of steel and don't charge an arm and leg. If you insisted they shift over to a boutique run high chromium/vanadium alloy they would just laugh.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby praharin » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:08 am

Woodsman wrote:
kilroy wrote:
Woodsman wrote:They are all pussies. Just ask stapler boy above. that's my ssssstaapler.


most people are more concerned with winning, staying alive, and being able to write their version of history into the books than being called a pussy by some random insignificant person hundreds of years in the future.



Newsflash: They are dead.

Besides that, none of them would have ever lived had it not been for indigenous materials such as I mentioned above.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


And you would never have lived if not for bronze, iron and steel weapons and tools used by your ancestors. What's your point?


Things improves as time passes. That is the case with steel. Where we are now technologically, the improvements are no longer as large and at the same time they cost more to make. In general use, most users won't be able to tell the difference between most quality steels.

The same could be said for cars, clothes, food, and just about every other consumer product. Variety is never a problem.
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Re: Best steel for working blades

Postby cukros1 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:23 am

If I am caught with nothing else but the folder in my pocket when the SHTF, I would want the very best - most durable, longest lasting edge, undestroyable blade. Suprisingly I dont carry a sharpener...I dont mind paying more for the best steel that money can buy for the most important tool that I count and depend on .
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