Question on US law

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Question on US law

Postby Arctic » Thu May 24, 2012 7:47 pm

Hi guys. Legal question here I'm hoping someone can help with: Is it possible for a non-US citizen to purchase a firearm in the US for export?

As in, is there any way I can buy a gun to ship back to Egypt without being a US resident or citizen?

On a related note... any recommendations for an affordable, reliable semi-automatic handgun?
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Re: Question on US law

Postby bobbyvandammit » Thu May 24, 2012 8:38 pm

you can't have one shipped overseas from the states if you are a non-us citizen, primarily due to itar guidelines (among other things.)

if you are a us-citizen living or working overseas, you can purchase one stateside via the internet or phone from a store near your billing address. you can also purchase one from an out-of-state store and have it shipped to your local ffl holder. if you are just gone for work, they can probably hold it for you until you return and you can then fill out your 4473.

if you are permanently residing overseas, you would have to go through an import/export guy to have it shipped to your country. it requires a mountain of paperwork, a three-four month wait time, and something to the tune of at least an extra $1500. massive pain in the butt.

if you are in egypt, one of the better things you'll probably find is a helwan, the maadi-licensed version of the beretta m 1951. it's one of the current models used by their military.


to the best of my knowledge, that's the skinny. someone feel free to chime in if i'm talking out of my ass or missed something else.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Hitoru » Thu May 24, 2012 9:55 pm

Arctic wrote:Hi guys. Legal question here I'm hoping someone can help with: Is it possible for a non-US citizen to purchase a firearm in the US for export? Not legally. Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

1.nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;
2.nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;
3.certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;
4.officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;
5.foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and
6.persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.
Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien cannot purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) and (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction


As in, is there any way I can buy a gun to ship back to Egypt without being a US resident or citizen? Not legally.

On a related note... any recommendations for an affordable, reliable semi-automatic handgun?
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Arctic » Fri May 25, 2012 6:54 am

Many thanks, bobbyvandammit and Hitoru for the swift and detailed answers.

Sucks that there's no way I can buy a gun while in the States.

Helwan, well, I can get a Helwan pretty easily (I think), but if memory serves, I recall it jammed up on us a couple of times. Not sure if that's a recurring problem, but don't really want to find out.

Main problem is, since the uprising here, the prices of firearms have risen over a 1000%, with a thriving black market. The Helwan, about the cheapest firearm you could buy here pre-revolt, now reportedly costs around EGP 12,000 (about USD 2,000). For a crummy, Egyptian-manufactured 9 mm. You can imagine what classier firearms cost.

Plus the demand for gun licenses is through the roof, with reports of bribes rising to around EGP 50,000 for an expedited license.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Woodsman » Fri May 25, 2012 12:47 pm

Arctic wrote:Many thanks, bobbyvandammit and Hitoru for the swift and detailed answers.

Sucks that there's no way I can buy a gun while in the States.

Helwan, well, I can get a Helwan pretty easily (I think), but if memory serves, I recall it jammed up on us a couple of times. Not sure if that's a recurring problem, but don't really want to find out.

Main problem is, since the uprising here, the prices of firearms have risen over a 1000%, with a thriving black market. The Helwan, about the cheapest firearm you could buy here pre-revolt, now reportedly costs around EGP 12,000 (about USD 2,000). For a crummy, Egyptian-manufactured 9 mm. You can imagine what classier firearms cost.

Plus the demand for gun licenses is through the roof, with reports of bribes rising to around EGP 50,000 for an expedited license.


That is ridiculous. Why would anyone ever bother buying one at that price? When you're over here, get to a range and shoot to your hearts extent. That's what I would suggest.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby kilroy » Fri May 25, 2012 2:08 pm

Why would anyone ever bother buying one at that price?


because other people are buying at that price and sometimes you want to be sure you aren't the only one in the neighborhood with a piece?

do they allow dealer to dealer exports of pistols or other firearms? i would imagine there would be more paperwork/stricter regulations, but i would think there would have to be a legal way to get a gun out there, or maybe to a third country that does allow exports of weapons to egypt?
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Arctic » Fri May 25, 2012 3:35 pm

Woodsman wrote:
That is ridiculous. Why would anyone ever bother buying one at that price? When you're over here, get to a range and shoot to your hearts extent. That's what I would suggest.


Kilroy wrote:
because other people are buying at that price and sometimes you want to be sure you aren't the only one in the neighborhood with a piece?

do they allow dealer to dealer exports of pistols or other firearms? i would imagine there would be more paperwork/stricter regulations, but i would think there would have to be a legal way to get a gun out there, or maybe to a third country that does allow exports of weapons to egypt?


Like Kilroy said.

It was always hard to get a license under Mubarak. When the uprising started, the state imploded on Jan. 28, and the police just melted away, after reportedly opening up the prisons to let out criminals. Others jails were stormed by families to release their relatives. We had a few weeks of sheer terror where there were armed assaults, murders, robberies, arson, and what not.

This was unheard of in Egypt. It was a police state, and those tend to be able to keep crime rates in control, at least in urban areas. So the wave of crime that descended upon us caused such horror, demand for firearms surged like you wouldn't believe. The criminals had guns. Egypt is a transit point for guns from Sudan and Libya headed for the Palestinian territories, and even under Mubarak you could get an AK-47 if you had the right contacts and were willing to risk jail, electrocution and maybe a little sodomy.

After the uprising, police stations were raided, and entire armories looted. It got so bad that, I kid you not, the state formally announced they would grant an amnesty to anyone who returned a stolen police firearm AND throw in an on-the-spot gun license to boot.

I'm fortunate in that my dad, a veteran who lives nearby, has firearms, so he loaned me one when my neighborhood set up armed checkpoints, barricades and sniper nests and went on lock down. That way, I didn't have to turn up for guard duty with a golf club, a butcher's knife, or a stick, as so many of my neighbors did.

It's been brought somewhat under control, but you still have armed robberies in the boondocks and the occasional shooting.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the laws, because it was so freaking hard to get a license (short of bribes or contacts) that I never had to. But I think maybe some of the licensed dealers can get you a piece from the US. I guess I'll try and find a guy who knows a guy who can legally get me a piece without raping me on the price. Not holding my breath though.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Hitoru » Fri May 25, 2012 11:22 pm

Better to get raped by the price than in the ass. I'm guessing your dad wont sell/give you one of his.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Arctic » Sat May 26, 2012 7:50 am

Hitoru wrote:
Better to get raped by the price than in the ass. I'm guessing your dad wont sell/give you one of his.


Verily!

Well, that's why I said I thought I could get a Helwan... he's willing to sign one over. I'll happily take it as a stop gap, but still aspiring to a better piece.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Woodsman » Sat May 26, 2012 11:02 am

Arctic - thanks for your reply. Probably the most valid argument supporting the 2nd dmemdment that I've ever heard...too bad they don't have it.
Arctic wrote:Woodsman wrote:
That is ridiculous. Why would anyone ever bother buying one at that price? When you're over here, get to a range and shoot to your hearts extent. That's what I would suggest.


Kilroy wrote:
because other people are buying at that price and sometimes you want to be sure you aren't the only one in the neighborhood with a piece?

do they allow dealer to dealer exports of pistols or other firearms? i would imagine there would be more paperwork/stricter regulations, but i would think there would have to be a legal way to get a gun out there, or maybe to a third country that does allow exports of weapons to egypt?


Like Kilroy said.

It was always hard to get a license under Mubarak. When the uprising started, the state imploded on Jan. 28, and the police just melted away, after reportedly opening up the prisons to let out criminals. Others jails were stormed by families to release their relatives. We had a few weeks of sheer terror where there were armed assaults, murders, robberies, arson, and what not.

This was unheard of in Egypt. It was a police state, and those tend to be able to keep crime rates in control, at least in urban areas. So the wave of crime that descended upon us caused such horror, demand for firearms surged like you wouldn't believe. The criminals had guns. Egypt is a transit point for guns from Sudan and Libya headed for the Palestinian territories, and even under Mubarak you could get an AK-47 if you had the right contacts and were willing to risk jail, electrocution and maybe a little sodomy.

After the uprising, police stations were raided, and entire armories looted. It got so bad that, I kid you not, the state formally announced they would grant an amnesty to anyone who returned a stolen police firearm AND throw in an on-the-spot gun license to boot.

I'm fortunate in that my dad, a veteran who lives nearby, has firearms, so he loaned me one when my neighborhood set up armed checkpoints, barricades and sniper nests and went on lock down. That way, I didn't have to turn up for guard duty with a golf club, a butcher's knife, or a stick, as so many of my neighbors did.

It's been brought somewhat under control, but you still have armed robberies in the boondocks and the occasional shooting.

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the laws, because it was so freaking hard to get a license (short of bribes or contacts) that I never had to. But I think maybe some of the licensed dealers can get you a piece from the US. I guess I'll try and find a guy who knows a guy who can legally get me a piece without raping me on the price. Not holding my breath though.
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Re: Question on US law

Postby Arctic » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:40 pm

bobbyvandammit wrote:

if you are in egypt, one of the better things you'll probably find is a helwan, the maadi-licensed version of the beretta m 1951. it's one of the current models used by their military.


Helwan it is. Simply can't afford to drop USD 5,000 - 15,000 on a firearm. I'm feeling better about the Helwan I have, which is an ancient military spec one, but apparently better for it. It's the original generation, where the metallurgy was reportedly far superior to the commercial Helwans that were produced after the Peace Accords.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.
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