How bad is Juarez...really?

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How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EOE_overland » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:51 am

Planning a recon trip to the Copper Canyons region in Mexico sometime Februaryish for the non-profit group I started. I've got some friends in the wheeled-expedition community who are telling me that (and this is my plan) if I fly to El Paso, get an airport shuttle to Juarez airport, then rent a modest car (in Juarez) and drive from there south on the highway to Cuidad Chihuahua, and west to Creel it should be a relaxing, wonderful trip. Ok, maybe not like driving to the supermarket...but if I stay off the road at night, get all my paperwork right, don't try to sell coke on any of the cartels' turf, and lay off the hookers, it shouldn't be too dangerous(?). I've had a number of folks in the last few weeks tell me I'm insane, gonna die, etc. So who do I believe???
Being a BFC noob, I've read that an introduction may help with the answer. I've been going to all parts of Haiti since I was 6 (24 long years ago!) with my family on medical trips. Spent some time, though not so much, in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico as well. I know the driving is not so great in Mexico, but driving like a lunatic when needed is something I pride myself on :). My spanish is crap; the Mexican exchange student that lived with us only taught me curse words and animal names. My brother (accompanying me on the trip) speaks fluent spanish and has spent a little time traveling in the Nuevo Laredo-Monterrey corridor. He also thinks the trip is a brilliant idea. So maybe the insanity is genetic???
I'm not ready for a backpacking trip thru Chechnya, but I've been around some lightly-sketchy stuff through the multiple regime changes in Haiti in the 90's. I'm not looking to walk blindly into danger. I've put a lot of (planning) effort into avoiding the majority of it: spending the night near the airport, leaving at first light to zip south of the border region, staying with a contact I trust in Creel (Chihuahua), sticking to toll roads until the mountains.
Any help would be appreciated! And of course the usual first-post hazing is in order.
Thanks!

Oh yeah- tried the search function and didn't find much that was close. If I'm missing a thread that answers my question, let me know.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby redharen » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:59 am

My brother recently did your trip in reverse (this past August, I think it was) -- he and his wife were at Copper Canyon when they found out she was pregnant, and drove north in their VW Bus. They crossed at Juarez and didn't have any trouble along the way. Of course, his wife is fluent in Spanish and they'd spent the previous month and a half driving through Baja and north-central Mexico, so by the time they headed back to El Norte, they were fairly well-versed.

It sounds like your brother has a decent idea of what he's doing, and I'd probably listen to him rather than the hysteric people who have never been there. Sounds like it'll be a really fun trip and I wish you the best.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby Woodsman » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:34 am

It's Mexico...


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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EOE_overland » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am

redharen wrote:It sounds like your brother has a decent idea of what he's doing, and I'd probably listen to him rather than the hysteric people who have never been there. Sounds like it'll be a really fun trip and I wish you the best.


I tend to agree. His traveling in Mehico was about 2 years ago, and I wanted to be sure the situation hasn't changed dramatically. I'm unbelievably psyched for this trip! But don't want my excitement to cloud my judgement; or miss out on new information my brother didn't know about.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby redharen » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:10 am

EOE_overland wrote:I tend to agree. His traveling in Mehico was about 2 years ago, and I wanted to be sure the situation hasn't changed dramatically. I'm unbelievably psyched for this trip! But don't want my excitement to cloud my judgement; or miss out on new information my brother didn't know about.


Well, I sure wish I knew more and could give you first-hand info, but I can't. Hopefully someone around here has been down there recently and can tell you more. Sometimes stuff here in the Travel Forum goes unnoticed (funny, huh, considering the ostensible purpose of this site). It sounds like you have the right attitude, though -- to be excited about your trip, but to be aware that excitement can cloud your judgment, and to go looking for solid information. You've still got some time -- keep doing your research and you should be able to minimize the risks quite a bit.

Again, best of luck to you, man.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby vagabond » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:12 am

This was from a friend when I asked him about Copper Canyon a year or so ago (if you wanted to go by bus):

Take the (better than Greyhound) bus from Denver to el paso to Chihuahua for 19hrs for $90. Americanos USA and Los Paisonos run from all sorts of places (even near you). Chihuahua is a nice town...take bus to Creel, stay at Margaritas, go down Batopilas, then back to Creel for train to Gulf of California, although Divisidaro will certainly suffice....Get out the Map!


Here's a recent Philip Caputo article about Juarez in The Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200912/mexico-drugs

Good reading but doubt that that holds much relevance for you. As long as you're not shipping drugs up your bum or pissing off people with tattoos on their face you'll probably be ok. Know where you are going or at least look like you know.

Have fun, post photos.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EOE_overland » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:38 am

vagabond wrote:This was from a friend when I asked him about Copper Canyon a year or so ago (if you wanted to go by bus):

Take the (better than Greyhound) bus from Denver to el paso to Chihuahua for 19hrs for $90. Americanos USA and Los Paisonos run from all sorts of places (even near you). Chihuahua is a nice town...take bus to Creel, stay at Margaritas, go down Batopilas, then back to Creel for train to Gulf of California, although Divisidaro will certainly suffice....Get out the Map!


Good reading but doubt that that holds much relevance for you. As long as you're not shipping drugs up your bum or pissing off people with tattoos on their face you'll probably be ok.

Have fun, post photos.


Wow, good thing I gave up hiding drugs in my bum! Finally a good reason to overcome my occasional desires to revert to the old life.

My brother brought up the bus idea. I'm not opposed other than the time factor: I'm trying to keep this trip short so I can keep my job at least until summer. And (at least in my head) a rental car would be better.

And I've definitely got plenty of maps! I think I'm single handedly helping Guia Roji thru the economic downturn. I'll look into Magaritas; unfortunately Creel is the furthest I'll get in to the Las Barrancas this time :(. The plan is to take my Landcruiser next time for a little exploring.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EV » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:49 am

Don't believe the hype. I was in Mexico about two months ago and hiked down into the Copper Canyons (very cool, but not super conducive to walking around much, unless you like fording rivers). To get there, I hitchhiked through the border at Laredo (US side); I never felt in danger, but then again, I may not be the person to ask. I was sitting on a bus stop bench at night in Laredo and the police had to come by and warn me that it was really awfully dangerous and wouldn't I please move so nothing awful would happen to a tourist on their turf? So I just walked to a darker section of town near the highway and slept peacefully on the concrete behind a building. That said, I have no idea how Juarez is in comparison.

The thing is with having a vehicle in Mexico is that many cops will be out to get you via bribes, so make sure you have your papers in order as you said. If your brother's with you and speaks Spanish, you should be fine. Apparently driving at night is a bad idea too, but maybe that's more out of concern for bottoming out your car on one of the many speed bumps (but probably not). If you're looking for cheap accomodations, there's a pretty good hostel whose name escapes me, but if you walk from the little center towards the train tracks, the first right I believe will lead you almost to it (they run tours and stuff as well, though they'll invariably recommend taking a guide anywhere you go) - the guy who runs it goes by name of Roger I think and speaks English. At any rate, there's a gazillion hotels to choose from, as it's a surprisingly touristy place.

If you want topo maps, I might recommend getting them before you go - people don't really do stuff on their own it seems, and even some guide told me to go the Best Western to find topographical maps, so it's not ideal for self-starters if such is your plan. You can find some maps at this Artesania place right on the centro, and some at Papeleria de Todo on the street that hits the centro, as well as at the hostal I mentioned, but I could never find a complete set of the canyons themselves. Ah, but then you said you already had maps now that I look, so you're set. At any rate, lemme know if you have any specific questions, but my advice is to ignore people who say that Mexico is dangerous (you're much safer if you're not actually Mexican).
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby LechoZX » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:05 pm

Any reason you want to drive across the border? You can just fly to Chihuahua and rent a car there. That's how I did it, although the flight to El Paso is probably quite a bit less. Southwest flies to El Paso.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EV » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:37 pm

Any reason you want to drive across the border?


Gotta get those drugs across somehow.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby LechoZX » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:49 pm

EV wrote:
Any reason you want to drive across the border?


Gotta get those drugs across somehow.


People smuggle drugs into Mexico?
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EV » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:08 am

I knew I'd get a smart ass comment like that if I didn't think it through and someone else did. But I'm ready with an explanation - you have to take the car INTO Mexico so you can smuggle the drugs back out of it. Or something.
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EOE_overland » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:17 am

LechoZX wrote:Any reason you want to drive across the border? You can just fly to Chihuahua and rent a car there. That's how I did it, although the flight to El Paso is probably quite a bit less. Southwest flies to El Paso.


Actually, that's exactly the plan. Bought tickets on Southwest to ELP day before yesterday for $99 each way; I love Southwest!
Best transportation plan I found (still evolving) for our time constraints is to get a shuttle or taxi across the border to the bus station in Juarez and catch a bus to Chihuahua. Depending on how bus-sick and on schedule we are, we're either going to rent a vehicle in Cuidad Chiahuahua or just take a bus the rest of the way. Insurance on the rentals is mucho dinero (practicing my espanol). So we'll see how it all works out. If it looks like getting our own wheels is a major hassle, then we'll bus it. Trip is in about 6 weeks, so I'm getting pretty excited!
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby EOE_overland » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:19 am

LechoZX wrote:
EV wrote:
Any reason you want to drive across the border?


Gotta get those drugs across somehow.


People smuggle drugs into Mexico?


Yes! See earlier post about tucking drugs into the bum

:)
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Re: How bad is Juarez...really?

Postby jakeleg » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:16 am

I only walk across and stay near the bridge. So I don't know how dangerous it can get. The cleaning lady where I worked, her nephew was shot over there. I don't know why.

Catch a movie while in Juarez. I love old theaters. El Cine Dorado. Trip cause you know at one time it was probably a legit theater. Look in the front window, has a big black and white pic of some actor from the 1930s, sitting below it is a prostitute.
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Hollywoods is a cool strip club. I wanted to go, but they didn't pay their quota. So it got burned down.
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Cool Bling.
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