Vikings

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Re: Vikings

Postby Caliban » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:13 pm

This in the news today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... yages.html

First Americans 'reached Europe five centuries before Columbus voyages'
The first Americans reached Europe five centuries before Christopher Columbus "discovered" the New World, according to claims made by a Spanish university team.
By Fiona Govan in Madrid 11:03PM GMT 16 Nov 2010

Scientists tracing the genetic origins of an Icelandic family believe the first American arrived in Europe around the 10th century, a full five hundred years before Columbus set off on his first voyage of discovery in 1492.

Norse sagas suggest the Vikings discovered the Americas centuries before Columbus and the latest data seems to support the hypothesis that they may have brought American Indians back with them to northern Europe.

Research indicates that a woman from the North American continent probably arrived in Iceland some time around 1000AD leaving behind genes that are reflected in about 80 Icelanders today.

Investigators discovered the genes could be traced to common ancestors in the south of Iceland, near the Vatnaj Kull glacier in around 1710 ruling out initial theories that they may have arrived via Asia.

"As the island was practically isolated from the 10th century onwards, the most probable hypothesis is that these genes correspond to an Amerindian woman who was taken from America by the Vikings some time around the year 1000," Carles Lalueza-Fox, of the Pompeu Fabra university in Spain, said.

A Viking settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows, in the eastern Canadian region of Terranova, is thought to date to the 11th century.

Researchers said they would keep trying to determine when the Amerindian genes first arrived in Iceland and would seek to link them to burial remains in the Americas.

The genetic research, made public by Spain's Centre for Scientific Research, was due to be published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.
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Re: Vikings

Postby karlsefni01 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:55 am

Thanks Caliban, fascinating link!
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Re: Vikings

Postby Caliban » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:56 pm

Indeed, its none news that the vikings undoubtedly shopped in Manhattan, but the knowledge that there was a transfer of peoples in both directionsopens up considerably different aspects of the early Medieval world view. Not really the dark ages at all.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Rhah » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:04 am

Yes, thank you Caliban. Just read the link. Very cool!
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Re: Vikings

Postby Kurt » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:06 pm

Another possibility for an American reaching Iceland might be one of those giant kayaks that the Inuit used. There have been at least three accounts of those Kayaks making it to Scotland (one with a living passenger who later died). The Sagas tended to give a pretty accurate description of the Norse settlements in the new world and usually when the natives are mentioned it is not in terms of "hey..why don't you come back with us!". Capturing women for slaves was not unheard of and was always a possibility but that was not mentioned in the sagas (doesn't mean it did not happen) but we know the newcomers and the locals pretty much hated one another and that Inuit technology was good enough for them to at least get out to sea far enough to get horribly lost. The settlements in Greenland were on the warmer western side and the Inuit ones were on the colder more hunter-friendly eastern side...or closer to Iceland.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Alessandro » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:17 pm

svizzerams wrote:Viking History!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!!!

Having made a few small pilgrimages specifically to see Viking stuff (Roskilde, DK - Viking Ship Museum; National Museum in Copenhagen; Trelleborg - Viking Fortress ruin; the Osberg Ship Museum in Oslo and then London, with the main aim of seeing the Lewis chess set and the Sutton Hoo Helmet...) I've picked up a few books along the way. Still haven't made it to Iceland or Sweden....or Yorkshire. But in addition to the Vikings, the Bronze age peoples of Scandanavia/British Isles are also fascinating.


The Vikings (http://www.amazon.com/Vikings-Revised-E ... 863&sr=8-6)

The Penguin Historical Atlas of Vikings (http://www.amazon.com/Penguin-Historica ... 11&sr=8-25)

The Viking World (http://www.amazon.com/Viking-World-Jame ... 36&sr=8-10)

Viking Age Iceland - Penquin (http://www.amazon.com/Viking-Age-Icelan ... 36&sr=8-18)

Bronze and Iron Age Scandanavia is almost as interesting as the Viking Age - these two books were written by P. Glob, a Danish archaeologist and are hard to find - I found used copies at Powells Bookstore in Portland several years ago. The National Museum in Copenhagen has excellent exhibits of many items found in the mound burials - textiles esp rare and interesting. There are a couple of other museum sites that have the famous Bog man (that I first read about in my Weekly Reader in grade school piquing my life long interest in history/archaeology and wondering why our species does the things it does)

The Mound People (http://www.amazon.com/Mound-People-Dani ... 13&sr=8-12)

The Bog People (http://www.amazon.com/Mound-People-Dani ... 13&sr=8-12) Looks like this one has been reprinted in a newer edition in 2004.

Mind you, Trelleborg is in Sweden. I used to live +30 years on the island of Gotland where metaldetectors are banned and they still find treasures with silvercoins now and then. This spring they found +1000 silver coins on the south of the island.
http://www.helagotland.se/nyheter/artik ... id=7605316 article in Swedish, 6000 coins.
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Re: Vikings

Postby svizzerams » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:33 am

Alessandro wrote:Mind you, Trelleborg is in Sweden. I used to live +30 years on the island of Gotland where metal detectors are banned and they still find treasures with silver coins now and then. This spring they found +1000 silver coins on the south of the island.
http://www.helagotland.se/nyheter/artik ... id=7605316 article in Swedish, 6000 coins.


There is another Trelleborg in Denmark, near Slagelse on the far west coast of Zealand. It is a cool Viking fortress from the 980's. I've had a chance to visit it a couple of times. They have marked the foundations of the buildings with insets of concrete. They use a flock of sheep to keep the grass clipped so you can see the outlines. The Vikings must have had some crazy interest in geometry because the symmetry and placement of the buildings makes a very nice design. Apparently the sea was closer to the location 1000+ years ago.

Image

I still need to visit Sweden and York, UK to continue my Viking history studies. It would be cool to find a hoard of coins. The National Museum in Copenhagen has some excellent exhibits on Vikings and the Bronze Age people. They were always tossing things in bogs....from coins up to complete ships.

You can see more of the layout of the structures in this foto:

Image
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Re: Vikings

Postby Kurt » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:18 am

York is cheesy but still worth it.
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Re: Vikings

Postby coldharvest » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:19 am

Kurt wrote:York is cheesy but still worth it.

Svizz should just come visit us and I'll dress up like a Viking
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Re: Vikings

Postby Alessandro » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 am

svizzerams wrote:
Alessandro wrote:Mind you, Trelleborg is in Sweden. I used to live +30 years on the island of Gotland where metal detectors are banned and they still find treasures with silver coins now and then. This spring they found +1000 silver coins on the south of the island.
http://www.helagotland.se/nyheter/artik ... id=7605316 article in Swedish, 6000 coins.


There is another Trelleborg in Denmark, near Slagelse on the far west coast of Zealand. It is a cool Viking fortress from the 980's. I've had a chance to visit it a couple of times. They have marked the foundations of the buildings with insets of concrete. They use a flock of sheep to keep the grass clipped so you can see the outlines. The Vikings must have had some crazy interest in geometry because the symmetry and placement of the buildings makes a very nice design. Apparently the sea was closer to the location 1000+ years ago.

Image

I still need to visit Sweden and York, UK to continue my Viking history studies. It would be cool to find a hoard of coins. The National Museum in Copenhagen has some excellent exhibits on Vikings and the Bronze Age people. They were always tossing things in bogs....from coins up to complete ships.

You can see more of the layout of the structures in this foto:

Image

Thnx for the explaination, never been there despite having living on Själland for 3 months.
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Re: Vikings

Postby nowonmai » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:52 am

York is not cheesy, it's a solid english city. Mind you despite living in York for a couple of years I never went to the Jorvik centre, as I always assumed it was designed for french teenagers with silly string and dyed hair, so if you're referring to that I can't comment. Anyway, I'll only get excited about Vikings when they come back and we can have a proper fight on our hands without all this bullshit ideology in the way. Don't tell anyone but I'm planning to annihilate the remnants of the Viking army by catching them at Manea, between Mepal and Downham Market, with their backs to the Old Bedford river. No quarter will be given then we'll have a massive party for a week or two. Then for a laugh we'll invade Denmark seeing as all their menfolk are fertilising English fields.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Kurt » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:13 am

nowonmai wrote:York is not cheesy, it's a solid english city. Mind you despite living in York for a couple of years I never went to the Jorvik centre, as I always assumed it was designed for french teenagers with silly string and dyed hair, so if you're referring to that I can't comment. Anyway, I'll only get excited about Vikings when they come back and we can have a proper fight on our hands without all this bullshit ideology in the way. Don't tell anyone but I'm planning to annihilate the remnants of the Viking army by catching them at Manea, between Mepal and Downham Market, with their backs to the Old Bedford river. No quarter will be given then we'll have a massive party for a week or two. Then for a laugh we'll invade Denmark seeing as all their menfolk are fertilising English fields.


Yes, I meant Jorvik. They have a "ride" where you sit in little roller coaster cars and tool around a viking town watching viking robots argue about fish. But I still liked the museum in spite of Per Toad's Not-Wild-Ride.

I liked York and had some good food and good beer there.
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