Manifest Destiny

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Manifest Destiny

Postby lok8 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:08 pm

Pretty nifty little page I thought you'se guys might enjoy.

http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/pr ... rview.html

Another interesting place on the subject-

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/E/manifest/manif6.htm

Enjoy turkey day suckas.
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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby Caliban » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:18 am

Funny how connotations of a phrase change with translation i.e. Manifest destiny = Lebensraum
From my initial dip in the first site seems to be a good read
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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby coldharvest » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:33 am

Caliban wrote:Funny how connotations of a phrase change with translation i.e. Manifest destiny = Lebensraum

I pretty sure the Native Americans read it the same way.
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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby deselby » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:53 am

coldharvest wrote:
Caliban wrote:Funny how connotations of a phrase change with translation i.e. Manifest destiny = Lebensraum

I pretty sure the Native Americans read it the same way.


History is written by the victors. Captain Jeffrey Amherst still has a town and a college named after him.

There was some resistance against the Mexican War by New England Unitarian intellectuals like Thoreau and Emerson, the same type of people who still resist the yahoo warmongers to this day. Of course they lived on stolen land, too.

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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby lok8 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:48 am

People who say "Remember the Alamo" conveniently neglect to remember that a considerable factor in the Texas Revolution was that dastardly Mexico decided to outlaw slavery, and that didn't wash well with the American slave-owning population, who needed them black folk to pick their cotton while they laid back on the porch sipping margaritas from coconut halves.

Hell, if you want an inspirational symbol for standing up for freedom against overwhelming odds, how about John Brown's Raid on Harpers Ferry? John Brown was a radical militant abolitionist who launched a real last stand for liberty in 1859. Taking along 20 other men, including freed slaves, he raided the federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry. By seizing the nation's supply of guns and ammunition, he hoped to initiate a slave revolt and uprising. As seen here:
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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby Michael » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm

Having been born and raised in Southern California, I always considered my cultural heritage to be more Spanish-Mexican than New England Yankee or Southern plantation. With the shifting demographics out here, I think we are looking at a new fertility driven version of Manifest Destiny that's got a Spanish accent. A lot of my fellow Anglos don't seem to like it much.
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Re: Manifest Destiny

Postby Kurt » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:57 am

Michael wrote:Having been born and raised in Southern California, I always considered my cultural heritage to be more Spanish-Mexican than New England Yankee or Southern plantation. With the shifting demographics out here, I think we are looking at a new fertility driven version of Manifest Destiny that's got a Spanish accent. A lot of my fellow Anglos don't seem to like it much.


Plus our concept of "Manifest Destiny" was taken from the Franco-Normans. When the Norse and Franks combined by a combination of invasion and treaty they had a glut of nobility and a shortage of land combined with superior castle erecting skill. When you look at the names of royalty in Europe in the middle ages you notice a change taking place between 1000AD to 1300AD. The Wulfs, Eathalbalds, and Lothairs start getting replaced by Williams and Henrys. The Crusades and the Reconquest was not so much of a Holy War than it was a bunch of titled people looking for land to rule (which is why they carved out territory from Byzantium).

The Spanish and the Portuguese were last true expansionists, having been Franco-Norman nobility kicking out the Arabs from Iberia they were still looking for land...and the discovery of the New World probably saved North Africa from becoming Latin again since they moved there.

The Catholic empires were much different than the Protestant ones in administration. The Iberians conquered and ruled and set up the same Feudal system that gave them wealth in the old world and they kept that Tradition in the New World longer. The Protestant countries got rid of religious dissidents by allowing them to move away to a place that got them out the way of those in power but they were still beholden to them for tariffs and trade.

Both are forms of Manifest Destiny and both have the same political roots but the Spanish/Mexican one is the one that is more authentic to the old Norman one. The only way they are really going to win is if we fight them. You cannot beat hardscrabble people who have a massive birth rate, good work ethic and excellent food. But you can get them to adopt your values and your systems..like the Greeks did with the Slavs. The Greeks of today are mostly Slav by blood but with a thorough and undeniable Greek culture.
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