Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

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Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:29 am

Nine more police killed in Amazon protests

AP

Sunday, 7 June 2009

President Alan Garcia labored yesterday to contain Peru's worst political violence in years, as nine more police officers were killed in a bloody standoff with Amazon Indians fighting his efforts to exploit oil, gas and other resources on their native lands.

The new deaths brought to 22 the number of police killed — seven with spears — since security forces moved early Friday to break up a roadblock manned by 5,000 protesters.

Protest leaders said at least 30 Indians, including three children, died in the clashes. Authorities said they could confirm only nine civilian deaths, but cabinet chief Yehude Simon told reporters that 155 people had been injured, about a third of them with bullet wounds.

He announced a 3 p.m.-6 a.m. curfew, which took effect immediately in this sweltering jungle region where Simon said authorities had made 72 arrests.

In a statement issued Saturday, Garcia defended the crackdown as an attack on "subversive anti-democratic aggression" that had blocked the flow of oil and gas from the Amazon and prevented food, medicine and gasoline from getting in.

The political violence is the Andean country's worst since the Shining Path insurgency was quelled more than a decade ago and bodes ill for Garcia's ambitious plans to boost Peru's oil, gas and mineral output and spur logging and biofuel development. Garcia compared the "savage and barbaric methods" used to kill police "who had surrendered and been disarmed" with those employed by the Shining Path.

The violence began before dawn Friday when security forces moved to break up a roadblock protesters mounted in early April. About 1,000 protesters seized police during the melee, taking more than three dozen hostage, officials said.

Twenty-five officers were rescued in yesterday's storming of Station No. 6 at state-owned Petroperu in Imacita here in the jungle state of Amazonas, authorities said, with two officers missing.

Simon said the nine killed were taken more than a mile from the station and slain while an army general was negotiating protesters' retreat from the facility.

Among at least 45 people being treated at the main hospital in the Amazonas town of Bagua was local Indian leader Santiago Manuin, who received eight bullet wounds on Friday, said a nurse who identified herself only as "Sandra" for security reasons.

Peru's public ombudsman, Beatriz Merino, toured hospitals and clinics in the violence-wracked Utcubamba province, of which Bagua is the seat, and complained of a shortage of "blood, analgesics, antibiotics, trauma equipment and doctors."

Also Saturday, a judge ordered the arrest of protest group leader Alberto Pizango on sedition charges for allegedly inciting the violence, said Javier Villa Stein, the president of Peru's supreme court.

Neither Pizango nor other senior members of his organization, the Peruvian Jungle Interethnic Development Association, could be reached by telephone.

Interior Minister Mercedes Cabanillos said Pizango had fled, likely to neighboring Bolivia where the government is dominated by the country's indigenous majority.

On Friday, Pizango accused Garcia's government of "genocide" for attacking what he called a peaceful protest. Indians have been blocking roads, waterways and a state oil pipeline intermittently since April 9, demanding that Peru's government repeal laws they say help foreign companies exploit their lands.

The laws, decreed by Garcia as he implemented a Peru-US free trade pact, open communal jungle lands and water resources to oil drilling, logging, mining and large-scale farming, Indian leaders and environmental groups say.

In addition to violating Peru's constitution, indigenous groups add, Garcia is breaking international law by failing to obtain their consent for the projects.

Garcia defends the laws as necessary to help develop Peru.

The government owns all subsoil rights across the country and Garcia has vigorously sought to exploit its mineral resources.

Contract blocks for oil and gas exploration cover approximately 72 percent of Peru's rain forest, according to a study published last year by Duke University in North Carolina.

And though Peru's growth rate has led Latin America in recent years, Garcia's critics say little wealth has trickled down in a country where roughly half the population is indigenous and the poverty rate tops 40 percent.

Indians say Garcia's government does not consult them in good faith before signing contracts that could affect at least 30,000 Amazon Indians across six provinces.

Last month, Roman Catholic bishops in the region issued a statement calling their complaints legitimate.

Protests prompted Garcia to declare a state of emergency on May 9, suspending some constitutional rights in four jungle provinces including Amazonas.

Because of the protests, Petroperu stopped pumping oil through its northern Peru pipeline from the jungle on April 26.

Company spokesman Fernando Daffos said Station 6 and another pumping facility in the region had resumed operation at midday yesterday.

The government declared Sunday a national day of mourning. In Lima, anguished relatives holding candles held a wake for nine of the slain police officers.



Alán García has inflamed matters further by being quoted as saying publicly that the indigenous people are "not first-class citizens", when one of their complaints is that they are treated as second-class citizens.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Woodsman » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:34 pm

GO underdogs!!!!
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby coldharvest » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:37 pm

President Alan Garcia is a shit-stain.
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:23 pm

coldharvest wrote:President Alan Garcia is a shit-stain.


Indeed he is.

And here's something you're unlikely to read much about in the Western press, I fear (imagine if it had been Chávez or Evo):

Peru's Ministry of Communications closes Bagua radio station

LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

Peru's Ministry of Transports and Communication has officially closed the local Radio Station La Voz de Utcubamba (in the Amazonian Region).

According to Carlos Flores, spokesman for La Voz de Utcubamba, the station has all its legal licenses, permits and paperwork “in order” since 13th March 2007.

However, the aforementioned Ministry issued a closure order against the radio station (official number 211-2009-MTC) alleging that it had not “sent the documentation regarding licenses for some of the station’s equipment”.

This is the only radio station that has transmitted live coverage of the Bagua conflict, providing a voice through its microphones to the people of Bagua.

Government congressmen have accused the station of inflaming tensions among the population, and the station has reportedly received several anonymous threats.
http://www.livinginperu.com/news/9328

In addition 61 named individual indigenous people have been named as disappeared.


My mistake: it's mentioned in passing at the bottom of a Latin American Herald Tribune article about the disappeared:
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Article ... ryId=14095
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby flipflop » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:12 pm

Inconsistency. You backed Chavez closing down that Venezuelan TV channel a while ago, something about it being extreme and calling for revolution, remember? Why is closing down a Radio Station by the Peruvian government any different to what Chavez did? Let me tell you why below.

Both are wrong IMO (if in the Peruvian case it can be proved that's why they did it) , free speech and all that, but you act as an apologist for one (with your ridiculous comparison, which hasn't been proved BTW, about Margaret Thatcher and Thames Television over "Death on the Rock") and denigrate another - care to explain that one?

The Ministry in Peru has said it closed it down because it had not “sent the documentation regarding licenses for some of the station’s equipment”. Is this possible? Or are you going to blindly take one side yet again? At least Chavez was blatant - he didn't like what the TV channel was saying and shut them down, period. Incoherent yet again.

You've just had your collar felt once more by the Logic Flying Squad, silly girl

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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Woodsman » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:26 pm

This is a disgrace in understanding. I support anything that supports the nature, and the Indians "get it". The cops don't.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:09 pm

Here we go again.
flipflop wrote:Inconsistency. You backed Chavez closing down that Venezuelan TV channel a while ago, something about it being extreme and calling for revolution, remember? Why is closing down a Radio Station by the Peruvian government any different to what Chavez did?


Not really. Because
1. I merely posted the news; I didn't comment on it. (Because I know no more about the station, what it was broadcasting, the circumstances of its closure and all the rest than I read in the article.)
2. RCTV's licence was not renewed when it came due, 5 years' after the coup it incited and supported; it wasn't summarily closed down. For those 5 years it had continually broken both the spirit and the letter of the law.
3. I knew about both the circumstances of RCTV's closure and its content (because I had watched it). I was in a position to express a view.

Sorry, flipflop, you'll have to do a bit better than that.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby flipflop » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:46 pm

Penta wrote:
Not really. Because
1. I merely posted the news; I didn't comment on it.


Bullshit. What's this then?:

Penta wrote:Alán García has inflamed matters further by being quoted as saying publicly that the indigenous people are "not first-class citizens", when one of their complaints is that they are treated as second-class citizens.


Penta wrote:
coldharvest wrote:President Alan Garcia is a shit-stain.


Indeed he is.


And here's something you're unlikely to read much about in the Western press, I fear (imagine if it had been Chávez or Evo)


You even started the thread with this:

Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

(my italics). Begging the question in the title alone - you KNOW it is.

If all this isn't commenting, what is? Anyway, all this rhetorical commentary but no facts? (pesky things just keep getting in the way, what's to be done, eh?) Just guesses and prejudices, I smell another Rumsfeld quote coming on. When you have the facts about the what, where and why the Peruvians closed this radio station down, then your opinions might be of use to intelligent people, until such time you're just blowing it out your ass

(Because I know no more about the station, what it was broadcasting, the circumstances of its closure and all the rest than I read in the article.)


Fucking "A", Didn't stop you giving your all on it though, did it?

2. RCTV's licence was not renewed when it came due, 5 years' after the coup it incited and supported; it wasn't summarily closed down. For those 5 years it had continually broken both the spirit and the letter of the law.
3. I knew about both the circumstances of RCTV's closure and its content (because I had watched it). I was in a position to express a view.

Sorry, flipflop, you'll have to do a bit better than that.


What about Thatcher? Give us a laugh about that one again, it'll be better this time, I promise.

I hereby serve you with a Logic Anti-Social Behaviour Order. You are to keep a distance of no closer than 100m to the nearest sensible person, and you shall be attending remedial classes on "Logic and How to Argue without Shite dripping out of your Mouth" twice weekly at Birmingham's Stompie Moketsi University of Afro-Islamic Studies

Take her down

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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:58 pm

flipflop wrote:Bullshit. What's this then?:

Penta wrote:Alán García has inflamed matters further by being quoted as saying publicly that the indigenous people are "not first-class citizens", when one of their complaints is that they are treated as second-class citizens.

Previous post. And that's further news, not comment. He has said that, it has inflamed matters further, it is one of the indigenous people's complaints.

Penta wrote:
coldharvest wrote:President Alan Garcia is a shit-stain.


Indeed he is.

Previous post.

And here's something you're unlikely to read much about in the Western press, I fear (imagine if it had been Chávez or Evo)

Comment on the news I posted? No.

You even started the thread with this:

Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

(my italics). Begging the question in the title alone - you KNOW it is.

How would you describe it? There were battles. They were about the Peruvian government awarding blocs of land to companies for exploitation. The land belongs to indigenous Peruvians.

If all this isn't commenting, what is?

Not on the article in question about the station closure.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby flipflop » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:16 pm

How would I describe it? I wouldn't call it "exploitation" unless I knew for sure that's what it was.

Assertion: "Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands"

Begs the question: "Are indigenous lands really being exploited in Peru?"

Logical answer: "Shit, I can't know for sure, if it is exploitation then it's not good (I would think this if I was a caring logical person, I certainly am fucking not caring, but for the sake of argument let's assume I am). If it isn't exploitation then it's bad there's fighting here, but progress is progress. But, until I know for sure I won't let my prejudice make my decision for me. I will use my brain and reason to withold judgement until such times as I think there's more than sufficient evidence, and having listened objectively to opinion either side of the dispute, to make a decision either way."

Pentalogic Answer: "Left-wing Indigenous good, Right-wing corporation bad - me happy. Aren't these black and white glasses wonderful? I'll get some for guests to the yacht, blah, blah, blah,.......(ad nauseam et finitum)

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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:25 pm

flipflop wrote:How would I describe it? I wouldn't call it "exploitation" unless I knew for sure that's what it was.

"Shit, I can't know for sure, if it is exploitation then it's not good (I would think this if I was a caring logical person, I certainly am fucking not caring, but for the sake of argument let's assume I am). If it isn't exploitation then it's bad there's fighting here, but progress is progress. But, until I know for sure I won't let my prejudice make my decision for me. I will use my brain and reason to withold judgement until such times as I think there's more than sufficient evidence, and having listened objectively to opinion either side of the dispute, to make a decision either way."

Oh, dear: "exploitation" as in mineral exploitation; oil and other subsoil stuff. Standard word, mate; neutral, no political overtones. (You see, this is where knowing what words mean and how they are properly used is helpful.)

Assertion: "Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands"

Begs the question: "Are indigenous lands really being exploited in Peru?"

Not yet, no. The Amazon Indians whose lands they are are trying to stop it.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
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I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:53 pm

Here's some comment for you from La Republica via Inca Kola News:

Image

The salesman's the shit-stain of course.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby Penta » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:25 pm

And some more:

Image

"I pray to the Blessed St. Progress and the Sacred Free-Trade Agreement that the US and the official press will intercede for my horrible sins..."

"Don't worry, my chosen son, official history will absolve you!"
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
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I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby nowonmai » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:24 pm

This is boring, I'm much more interested in Elizabeth Roxanne Cheesman Rajkovic; how she came to have such a groovy name and what she was doing hooking up the President of Peru.
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Re: Peru: Battles over exploitation of indigenous lands

Postby flipflop » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:18 am

Equivocation: The advocate uses the same word twice, but with different meanings in the same argument. In this case it's obvious to anyone reading the thread from the start that the equivocator is using "exploitation" as in taking advantage of some person or group for your own ends, at the expense of the interests of that person/group.

When called out on their begging the question, the equivocator shifts gear onto another meaning of "exploitation", again in this case meaning to exploit resources from the earth, as if she intended that meaning from the beginning. Any intelligent seeker after truth can spot equivocation quite easily, especially one as blunt as this one. When the equivocation is deliberate it is usually disregarded as sophistry on behalf of a dishonest advocate. Nice try though.

The use of political cartoons to further an opinion is usually regarded as childish, more befitting a sixth-form nascent revolutionary. Nice try again.

Get back to me when you have facts, then we can discuss the matter like reasonable adults

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