The movie that got Van Gogh killed...

For those post related to Burt Reynolds and throwing balls.

The movie that got Van Gogh killed...

Postby Piggs » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:12 pm

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2655656

Just thought it would be very interesting if I could post the movie that was at the heart of the issue.

It is in english right after the Arabic prayer... be patient
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Postby seektravelinfo » Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:16 pm

The success of a film lies in the marketing of it. The murder of Mr. VanGogh should result in "Submission" gaining a substantial viewing on an international level.
I hope that it wins best documentary in Cannes, as Fahrenheit 9/11 did and I hope that it provokes as much outrage as Michael Moore's film did. If the nominating committee at the Cannes Film Festival have any guts, that is.
It is a worry that the profound message will get lost in the controversy. I hope that the international women's advocacy communities will take this on, and most importantly, heads of various states, & bring it back to the awful truth of the plight of most women in Islamic societies.
This is not a time to get all P.C. wobbly.
"I wish the women would hurry up and take over." (Leonard Cohen)
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Postby mach1 » Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:52 pm

Of course the crucial diff between the two films is art form.

OK yes, one, Moore is not related to any 17th C. artists that we know
and his film is of a different perrenial variety.

Another thing is outrage and provocation.

All those mosques burned in Amsterdam. Thats a good thing?

The murderer will get a trial and justice will be meted out.

All those other people are reacting at a closer to primal level by
torching mosques, reacting in the same way as the murderer did
to a piddly ten minute film. If it went beyond just attacking buildings
and arson, say a tit for a tat, that perp would be faced with the same criminal charges as the person who took out Van Gogh is.

If the film doesnt make a direct hit and measurable improvement on the treatment of the oppresed and abused why should I pay it any
attention?

All it is doing is escalating things.

If I went to see any movie and they tried to show me this film as
a trailer I'd walk out of the theatre and ask for a refund.

Yes I call that making a statement.

Sometimes it comes down to knowing what you stand for and not neccessarily what you are against. I am against all forms of engrained abuses of women, but I think the film, vis a vis as we can see from the results (one man dead, another on trial and Amsterdam is burning) is a poor effort, indelicate, its packaged controversy almost veering towards pandering to the egoistic drives of the film creator/artist
instead of focusing on REAL issues.

Im sure some people may react negatively to what I say next, but,
what if Amsterdam brought into effect a law making it illegal
to produce anything (books,pamphlets,posters,films) for distribution
that willingly libels,insults,treats derogatorily,defames,brings into ill
repute any persons race,religion or creed.

This would be treated in a civil court, so it would NOT be a criminal
matter so artists would NOT have to be worried about a so called
hammer being brought down on artistic endeavours.

The judging would be done by a jury of peers and yes you could call it censorship. Its censorship for a purpose to prevent repeats and represents
a sensible response to the way things have developed.

The jury could be made up of an equal amount of men and women
from all different religions.

A film that doest make it past the board would simply not be allowed to be shown in a public venue nor be allowed for distbution via normal channels. Contravenors would be fined.
If they dont agree, they can go show thier film underground somehwere as long as it is not a public venue where the events is actively promoted and advertised and tickets are sold .

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How about a ten minute film about some of the advances some Muslim
communities have made in treatment of women? Without fanning flames of ...uh, ha-te-red?


--

I should probably throw in here as a disclaimer that I realize its pretty easy to say such things from this side of the Atlantic. I can just imagine
the tensions risings in claustorphobic Europe. Someone should really
do a news style doc on the whole situation over there.
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