Penta-bashing

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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby flipflop » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:59 pm

Penta wrote:
ROB wrote:most people on this board don't own a quarter million dollar depreciating assett that is by any stretch, a superfluous luxury


And neither do I.


No, you're even worse - a kept woman, it's your old man owns it, as you keep telling us, as if it's got nothing to do with you. Who owns the two Spanish Villas? Why so shy about your material wealth? I think ROB just about covered it.

Fucking rich bourgeois hypocrite

Cheers
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Ultra Swain » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:35 pm

A working class hero is something to be.
Geez,am I NOT ALLOWED TO BE INTENSE FOR JUST 10 FUCKING SECONDS??!!!!!!!
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Penta » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:31 pm

I must say I do wonder what the difference is between us having 2 houses in Spain, one of which we let, and vlindsay having 2 houses or flats in England, one of which she lets. Except, perhaps, we had the luck, nous, foresight to buy/build them in Spain. You're just jealous, flipflop. And perhaps pissed off that you haven't parlayed all your super-earnings as a mercenary into a way of earning you a living so you don't have to keep leaving your wife for months at a time.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Mikethehack » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:52 pm

Penta wrote:you haven't parlayed all your super-earnings as a mercenary into a way of earning you a living so you don't have to keep leaving your wife for months at a time.


Rumour....Penta and Flipflop are husband and wife.
I'm not really a proper reporter, due to the chronic lack of discipline, negligible attention span, and a certain juvenile difficulty taking serious things seriously.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby nowonmai » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:01 pm

And I am pretty sure most people on this board don't own a quarter million dollar depreciating assett that is by any stretch, a superfluous luxury.


Are you talking about her lungs or her liver? Probably only get $100 for each on the organ black market, now that Alastair Cook's bone wrangler got rumbled.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby ROB » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:00 am

Penta wrote:I must say I do wonder what the difference is between us having 2 houses in Spain, one of which we let, and vlindsay having 2 houses or flats in England, one of which she lets.


Um, VLindsay doesn't go off on tirades against entire groups for not giving enough to charity.

And perhaps pissed off that you haven't parlayed all your super-earnings as a mercenary into a way of earning you a living so you don't have to keep leaving your wife for months at a time.


Wow, particularly snobbish thing to say.

You were brought up in an environment where knowledge of doing that was common and shared.

Most people are not fortunate enough to have the background knowledge and support base.

Funny you of all people, have such contempt for the very people you purport to champion.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby flipflop » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:04 am

Hohohoho....I'm enjoying this thread, I can almost hear the anguished cries of rage from here in my humble little room in Kabul

Cheers folks
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Penta » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:20 am

ROB wrote:
Penta wrote:I must say I do wonder what the difference is between us having 2 houses in Spain, one of which we let, and vlindsay having 2 houses or flats in England, one of which she lets.


Um, VLindsay doesn't go off on tirades against entire groups for not giving enough to charity.


I don't know that I do, either. I do remember somewhere years ago wondering what the evidence was for the oft-repeated assertion that USanians give more than anyone else (in relation to the SE Asian tsunami, I think). Have you found any, incidentally? Otherwise it just seems to be you saying I should give away Mr Penta's boat.

And perhaps pissed off that you haven't parlayed all your super-earnings as a mercenary into a way of earning you a living so you don't have to keep leaving your wife for months at a time.


Wow, particularly snobbish thing to say.

He has been bragging about how much he earns - more by an order of magnitude, I'm sure, than I've ever earned - and regretted having to leave his wife for long periods. How is it snobbish to suggest that he might find a way of putting that money to work so he doesn't have to?

You were brought up in an environment where knowledge of doing that was common and shared.

Now you're doing the same as flipflop, making totally unfounded assumptions about my background - and as wrong. What I learnt from the environment I was brought up in was to live within my means, however inadequate, never buy anything on the never never, and only borrow on a mortgage to buy a house.

There seems to be this idea that I've always been well off. Far from the truth. I have been as poor as probably anyone on this board. But I followed the rules about borrowing, to the extent that my children and I dressed for years entirely from jumble sales (charity shops were far too expensive), and we ate the vegetables being thrown away at the street market at the end of the day, but we did eventually, with great trepidation, buy a washing machine on credit - when we had two babies and we worked out the payments would be cheaper than what I was paying in the laundrette, when I could no longer cope with washing 2 sets of towelling nappies by hand every day. All so we could keep paying the mortgage.

Most people are not fortunate enough to have the background knowledge and support base.

That knowledge did indeed stand us in good stead. I don't know about the support base. If we'd been left homeless, our parents certainly wouldn't have let us starve on the streets (and nor, of course, would our benefit system) but I don't see how they could have bailed us out otherwise. As it happens, since we did make some money, it's been the other way round, with us bailing out various family members.

The suggestion (not from you) that I was some sort of trustafarian couldn't be further from the truth. The jealousy expressed by people like flipflop seems to be based entirely on this fantasy that he and nowonmai have constructed about me.

Funny you of all people, have such contempt for the very people you purport to champion.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I have plenty of contempt for flipflop and I've never championed (let alone "purported to champion") him. But it isn't extended to any group or class.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby ROB » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:49 am

Ahh, but for people like you, it's not how much you earn, it's how you earn it.

A guy earning 30k a year off his independent investments (property preferably) is far more worthy of respect than a hack who gets his hands dirty in the mines earning 100k and spends it on bling, right?

And I am certainly not saying you should give away anything. A point you seem intent on sidestepping or intentionally missing. In fact I couldn't give a toss if you bathe daily in goats milk. I just find it hypocritical when someone who is obviously much better off than most people harps on and makes snide comments about other people's charity. (And yes, I have seen the stats about US private giving, but I don't really see the point of looking them up again, to have them dismissed as you invariably do to any contrary evidence).

What I learnt from the environment I was brought up in was to live within my means, however inadequate, never buy anything on the never never, and only borrow on a mortgage to buy a house.


Good advice. But most stats on private debt in the US and UK should be enough to tell you that most people never learnt these lessons. Probably because they didn't have the advantage of wisdom such as that given to you by your parents. (And from what you have told me, your parents weren't exactly dead end chavs, either).

Hell, that you even know there are "rules about borrowing" automatically put you ahead of 95% of the population when it comes to knowledge about wealth accumulation.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Fansy » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:25 am

like every once a week when i check this board i always gotta stop by this thread and just marinate in its awesomeness...not that i have anything against you penta; i enjoy your presence more than most on these boards. but this thread just keeps on giving.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby flipflop » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:53 am

The woman is talking through her sphincter, and she thinks we're gonna buy it? She told us her pops was an army officer, I believe he was a commanding officer of some dump in England - a CO is usually a Major or above, but I would guess he was probably a Lieutenant-Colonel or higher. Now, if he was, and he was a poor Lieutenant-Colonel (do me a fucking favour), then his private soldiers must have been scavenging in bins and fighting stray dogs for scraps of rotting meat.

Penta: a regular Little Orphan Annie:


[ORPHANS]
It's the hard-knock life for us!
It's the hard-knock life for us!

[ANNIE]
'Steada treated,

[ORPHANS]
We get tricked!

[ANNIE]
'Steada kisses,

[ORPHANS]
We get kicked!

[ALL]
It's the hard-knock life!
Got no folks to speak of, so,
It's the hard-knock row we how!

[ANNIE]
Cotton blankets,

[ORPHANS]
'Steada of wool!

[ANNIE]
Empty Bellies

[ORPHANS]
'Steada of full!

[ALL]
It's the hard-knock life!

[ANNIE]
Don't if feel like the wind is always howl'n?

[KATE AND TESSIE]
Don't it seem like there's never any light!

[DUFFY AND JULY]
Once a day, don't you wanna throw the towel in?

[MOLLY AND PEPPER]
It's easier than puttin' up a fight.

[ANNIE]
No one's there when your dreams at night get creepy!
No one cares if you grow...of if you shrink!
No one dries when your eyes get wet an' weepy!

[ALL]
From all the cryin' you would think this place's a sink!
Ohhhh!!!!!!!
Empty belly life!
Rotten smelly life!
Full of sorrow life!
No tomorrow life!

[MOLLY]
Santa Claus we never see

[ANNIE]
Santa Claus, what's that?
Who's he?

[ALL]
No one cares for you a smidge
When you're in an orphanage!

[MOLLY]
(Making a whistling sound and imitating Miss. Hannigan)
You'll stay up till this dump shines
like the top of the Chrysler Building.

[ORPHANS]
Yank the whiskers from her chin
Jab her with a safety Pin
Make her drink a mickey finn
I love you, Miss Hannigan

[MOLLY]
(whistle) Get to work!
(whistle) Strip them beds!
(whistle) I said get to work!

[ALL]
It's the hard-knock life for us
It's the hard-knock life for us
No one cares for you a smidge
When your in an orphanage
It's the hard-knock life
It's the hard-knock life
It's the hard-knock life!


Cheers
Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country - Bertrand Russell
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Penta » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:43 am

ROB wrote:Ahh, but for people like you, it's not how much you earn, it's how you earn it.

A guy earning 30k a year off his independent investments (property preferably) is far more worthy of respect than a hack who gets his hands dirty in the mines earning 100k and spends it on bling, right?

I disagree. I respect people who earn their living by working hard far more than I respect people who live off independent investments, especially from inherited money. How a person spends their money is their own business. I've never been into conspicuous consumption myself, but as long as they can keep supporting themselves and their family and pay their fair share of taxes for the common good as well as waste it on crap, that's fine by me. If they're going to blame me for managing the money we've earned well, and enjoying the (quite modest) benefits of it (because of course we have given and continue to give a lot of the surplus away, rather than spend it on bling - or diamonds or other pointless display), that's quite a different matter: and that seems to be flipflop's very tedious, silly and poorly targeted game.

And I am certainly not saying you should give away anything. A point you seem intent on sidestepping or intentionally missing.

So what was the point of suggesting it in the first place?
By selling the boat, Penta could conceivable feed about a quarter million people for a year.

That's no small thing.


I just find it hypocritical when someone who is obviously much better off than most people harps on and makes snide comments about other people's charity.

You use that as your justification, and the much stronger "go off on tirades against entire groups for not giving enough to charity". I think you're imagining this. Show me where I did.


But most stats on private debt in the US and UK should be enough to tell you that most people never learnt these lessons. Probably because they didn't have the advantage of wisdom such as that given to you by your parents. (And from what you have told me, your parents weren't exactly dead end chavs, either).

Hell, that you even know there are "rules about borrowing" automatically put you ahead of 95% of the population when it comes to knowledge about wealth accumulation.


I don't think that's true either. Or certainly not until the last 15 or 20 years. Most people used to know perfectly well, until they were bombarded with offers of credit, with credit cards, store cards, mortgage offers that were too good to be true. This borrow borrow borrow consumer culture is very recent in Britain at least. It started, I suppose, under Thatcher, with the selling off of council houses and the subsequent collapse of the rental market, forcing people to borrow above their means to get onto the housing ladder, and then the huge house price boom where people saw rapidly growing equity in their houses and were encouraged (irresponsibly) to borrow on the (always notional) value of their house to fund consumer purchases. Complete insanity. And the whole thing changed for young people, many of whom don't seem to have grasped the basics, as you say, with the charging of fees for university, the huge expansion of places with accompanying near abolition of student grants and the introduction of student loans - so they started out in life with huge debts at the same time as they had to borrow even more (in an unsustainably high house price market) to get themselves somewhere to live. Now, indeed, they're all fucked.

And no, our parents weren't dead-end chavs, but they earned what money they had, they didn't inherit anything; in fact in Mr Penta's case they earned very little, and when his father died nearly 20 years ago he left only debts, and we've been supporting his mother ever since (when our own circumstances weren't too good either). A lot of that generation were fucked up by the war, their career paths badly disrupted: but goodness, did they know how to "make do and mend". (Only with great difficulty did we persuade my mother-in-law that it really wasn't worth washing and re-using cling film - tinfoil, fine, but not cling film.) My mother, on the other hand, was extravagant, and very keen on "keeping up appearances" (and an alcoholic to boot), and with 3 daughters to keep at private schools, their finances were also always stretched to the limit - which meant that, as the second daughter and with an older cousin at the same school, I never once had a single piece of new uniform, apart from underwear, and until an aunt started buying my clothes for me when my parents lived abroad in my early teenage years and then I learnt to make my own, pretty much all my home clothes were hand-me-downs too. In fact, I used to make a lot of clothes for my younger sister as well, so she didn't have to go through the same thing.

So no, though I certainly wasn't seriously materially deprived or ever short of the basics, I wasn't a spoilt little rich girl, with everything handed to me on a plate, as some people seem to think. And the very best thing when we got a large chunk of money when we sold a company, was not worrying how we were going to pay the bills at the end of the month. But when I have to buy myself new clothes, I still find it hard not to limit myself to whatever's on the sale rail. No designer gear for me: I can't bring myself to waste the money. And I am happy to report that last year, at the very top of the housing market, my father sold the house they bought 34 years before for nearly 60 times the price they paid for it. So it paid off for him in the end, though my mother didn't live to see it (and would have pissed it all away if she had).
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby Penta » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:51 am

flipflop wrote:The woman is talking through her sphincter, and she thinks we're gonna buy it? She told us her pops was an army officer


He was. Army officers in the 50s, 60s and 70s were not particularly well paid. Even now a headteacher of a big comprehensive earns a lot more than a brigadier. And try comparing with a 20-something bank trader, even before you include the bonus. Back then, you were expected to have an independent income as well: if not, tough shit.

You can go fuck yourself.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby flipflop » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:04 pm

So he was a Lieutenant-Colonel then

You can go fuck yourself.


I'll mark that one down as 'target hit'

Cheers now
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Re: Penta-bashing

Postby ROB » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:55 pm

Let me put it another way Penta.

Of the last 20 people to dine at your house, did the majority have more in common with the 30k independent wealth guy, or the 100k bling guy?

And while I can't really be bothered looking up stuff at you behest (fallen into that trap before and it's usually simply dismissed or ignored therefore a waste of time on my part), I do recall you being fairly critical of US giving in past conversations. The point of the boat comment was to point out hypocrisy. (Is this the second or third time I have repeated the reason?).

As for back in your day, everyone knew about money, well the evidence doesn't add up. If the lowliest janitor puts away 10% of his earnings (another golden money rule) he will probably die a millionaire. Pretty sure there wasn't a surge in Janatorial millionaires in the 60s and 70s. The working poor have always been the working poor.

Anyway, judging by the growing length of your responses, this is conversation is heading towards becoming one of your rhetorical quagmires so I'll leave it to you.
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