Danger-zone tourism research

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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:43 pm

So, Penta's 'rest' lasted all of 15 hours, and she must have shit a house brick holding out for that long. She bleats about me not calling her a 'cunt' for six posts, but why should I? I've no need to, she's deflected the fact that a disgusting email - from her account - found it's way into Jaeger's inbox, by blaming it on another poster she has a gripe with. Her behaviour is pathetic, desperate, a few how's yer father's from me won't change that.

She always talks about people building 'edifices' of bullshit around her 'arguments', look at the whopper she has spun around this sordid little episode. Yet we should believe her, the woman who has NEVER conceded one point of contention the whole time she has been on this board? She is NEVER wrong, remember? Even if someone did hack her computer and concocted this ridiculous email, she still went for Jaeger's family, bringing his grandmother into it. I will keep saying this - Penta whines like a castrated cat when the vernacular is used on her, but she goes for people armed with knowledge she has gleaned from their life away from here - she hinted my wife was in some kind of danger because I must be suffering from PTSD, this was after she mocked my wife for going home early from our big holiday, couldn't 'hack' it. My wife went home to tend for a sick relative she was very close to, especially as his wife died when we were in Italy in 2005. None of that information was available on this board, she had to go fishing elsewhere for it, and before she comes back that I had a link to my blog in my sig, I took it down months before Penta went sniffing for shit on me. I decided to dismantle the blog altogether after she used it against me, that is the only reason why. She knew how close Jaeger is to his Gran, so she provoked him with her. That's how she operates, then she plays the innocent. Does that not deserve the title of 'cunt'?

She has been chipping away at me since I joined this board, mocking my lack of Arabic the same day I get an IED right up my fucking arse in Tikrit, how am I supposed to react? I joined this forum in Iraq, hopefully to network and unwind with like-minded and similarly employed people. I had and still have no axe to grind, I never force my politcal views on other people here, then fight like an alley cat when my political opinions are questioned. I respect people's views here, you're mostly erudite and well-rounded people, I wouldn't be so arrogant in thinking I could change your viewpoint to my way of seeing things. I also know my views are fallible and open to solid reasoning, some could even be refuted. But I bite the bullet and don't throw them out here in a continuous monologue, day after day, after day, while challenging those whose views are antithetical ALL THE TIME. Ask Penta why she joined. From the get go she was on my case, so much for light relief.

I eventually decided to stop putting photos up here, but the last straw was when Penta sees a pic of me and my mate having a rest on a journey from Baghdad to Basra. The guy lost virtually his whole team the day before the photograph was taken, his best mate got shot in the face beside him, and he had to fight for over an hour with the corpse lying beside him, back of the head missing. His chest rig was covered in shit, bone, bullet fragments (as was his face and leg), cartilege, blood, sweat, mud, oil, so he ditched it before we took him to Basra, then joined him in Kuwait on the way home for R n R. He spent the whole night in Kuwait crying out in his sleep, reliving the whole day - he survived because he ran out of rounds and ran away to hide in a ditch, he watched his team either shoot themselves or get executed by the jihadis.

I thought it would make an interesting photo for people to see who've never been in that environment. I post it and old Penta, who knows how much I dislike her, posts "What's the matter with the other guy? He hasn't got all those essential tactical pockets." It's a snide, sarcastic dig, aimed at me, no doubt fueled by her hatred of lower class males like me, especially ex-soldiers. It shouldn't really mean much, but in the context of where I was at that time, what I was dealing with, along with her steady trickle of snide attacks, I react the only way I know how - she gets both barrels. She called my behaviour "attacks", in the physical world an attack to me was usually made with IEDS and machine guns. An attack on the internet is virtual, it doesn't exist, she has never been under any kind of threat of real harm on here, and she knows it. Jaeger was right in flagging up her tawdry behavoiur of likening herself to real attack victims who have real scars to show it.

Which is worse? Calling someone a cunt, or using information that isn't on this board to get a cheap dig in. I don't give a fuck what you lot think, but she's no fucking angel, and she's no victim either, no fucking way. Remember this whole thing with Jaeger started when he flagged up a ludricrous post she put up about jews in Europe being anti-Israel over Gaza. She was supposed to be his student, after she requested help when I wiped her shit all over the board with basic logic. She was embarassing herself, and him in turn as her mentor.

No word from the big man, looks like he's decided to go the way of many a good poster here, while old Pen hangs around like the smell of a rotting corpse stuck in a drain.

Anytime soon, I would guess within the next 12-20 hrs, we will have our next C+P from the leftwing moonbat blogosphere, followed by a challenge, then obfuscation, denial, lashings of rhetoric, bluster, arrogance, more C+P's backing up the earlier one, possibly more opinion from the Grauniad, accusations of victimisation, harassment, bullying.

That there is your BFC, right there, enjoy

Cheers
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby Penta » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:45 pm

flipflop: you are as entitled as anyone else to add your views on how horrible I am. And you can dredge up all the unpleasant things I said to you 4 years ago again, if you must, but it's not really fair or honest when I can't (and won't, of course) mention the extra context you gave me confidentially, is it? Not to mention the fact that when I knew the whole story I apologised sincerely to you, you accepted it and we agreed to put the whole thing behind us. The fact that the version for public consumption is constantly brought up again is one of the reasons Jaeger isn't able to take my word now, so it makes it harder for him to take on board what actually happened here. So it's not really helpful.

It's also far from true that I never concede when I'm wrong. That's one of the areas where Jaeger has made great progress with me. I frequently concede that I'm wrong, I frequently admit that I behaved badly in the past, I frequently acknowledge my many faults. More, at a guess, than anyone else here (but then perhaps I have more faults to acknowledge). I have been very contrite. And I have certainly never claimed to be angelic.

Remember this whole thing with Jaeger started when he flagged up a ludricrous post she put up about jews in Europe being anti-Israel over Gaza
That's not strictly true either. They weren't anti- but pro-Israel and the post didn't even mention Gaza. And my argument with him focused on what he called my "deflection" of his first post in the thread, where I was actually trying to avoid getting into another of our long, tiresome and forever unresolvable arguments about Israel/Palestine (an example of where if I take one piece of advice I can end up falling foul of another), and why he gratuitously called me the most hateful poster on the board. I had already (and immediately) conceded his three other criticisms.

As for J's granny: after he'd been accusing me, falsely (but with reason, as I now know), of threatening his family, I tried to lower the temperature with a bit of self-deprecation. Remember what I actually wrote?
Really, you can relax: I promise your granny's safe from my demonic grasp.
People's grandmothers are usually the most vulnerable members of their family, and as I said, from the little I know about J's, I rather like her. I was not "going for" J's family in general, or his grandmother in particular; I wasn't using his grandmother as a dig at him, as he suggests: I was simply saying he needn't worry about his family as far as I am concerned; I am no threat to them, and have made no threats to or about them. The trouble is, when you (and he) start viewing everything I say or do through the lenses of my supposed evil monstrousness, you interpret it all as malicious. I do have a remaining trace of malice towards you (as well as some sympathy, as you know), and I've never denied that, but I also try very hard to keep it in check, in the face of much provocation (as I expect you would concede). But I have none for Jaeger, as I hope I've made abundantly clear by now.

As for my 'rest': I'm obviously going to answer direct questions (like yours, yesterday) in this thread, and I shall respond to other people's comments, if I think it appropriate. I posted in reply to friendlyskies' travel plans in Europe in the autumn too. But I'm not intending to start new threads, or post in other political threads, until we see how - if - this problem with Jaeger can be resolved. I expect (hope) he's having a well-deserved weekend off, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't come back with his considered response to my long explanatory post in due course, when he's had time to think it all through. (It's easy for me, because I know I didn't write the email; much harder for him with all the conflicting possibilities.) I don't expect he'll soften his position, though stranger things have happened.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
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Mega ditto.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:26 pm

Ok, you're right and I'm wrong, as always, well done

but it's not really fair or honest when I can't (and won't, of course) mention the extra context you gave me confidentially, is it?



You can put every fucking word you wrote to me unasked for (you even lied about me sending you unsolicited personal messages), and those I replied. Fuck me I'll even post all of those pm's here, that should shut your fucking noise up for at least half a day

Wait and I'll go find them now cunt, or what's left of them as I don't hold pm's to use against anyone here, I delete most of them when I can

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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:36 pm

Ok, I've deleted the one you sent addressing me by my real name after you sniffed it out from an article on PBs, before I got Foulplay to take it down. I don't know how many else there were. Feel free to add any of yours, because I don't give flying fuck what is in them, and you're making out I'm holding something back that explains why you are, once again, innocent in all this fucking shit:

Sent: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:02 pm
From: Penta
To: flipflop

Subject: Just to clear something up

So my next assumption is that you were the anonymous when I was talking about it to Woodsman. In which case I'll do what I told him then I'd come online to do (and he advised me not to), and ask why you're so angry with me all the time.

Jaeger tells me I must have offended you greatly, and that I should be contrite and humble and apologise. (Woodsy says it isn't that at all, and that I shouldn't, but I'll go with Jaeger.) As you can imagine, it's not easy being contrite, when I see myself as the one with the greatest reason to take offence, and when my attempts at civility have been rebuffed. But I'll do my best.

My gibe about you playing dirty as in everything else was stupid and uncalled for, and I can apologise sincerely for that.

My comment to cold about him banning you as well as Bing was a joke, and indicated as such by the winky emoticon and tiny font, as I'm sure you realised, so I don't feel I need to apologise for that.

My comment about your wife giving up your trip was provoked, but probably OTT, so I can apologise for that too. I remembered it from the blog as being because she found it all too much in Indonesia or Malaysia or wherever it was; if it was, as you say, because her grandfather was ill (and obviously I couldn't go back to the blog to check) then I apologise for that aspect too. My poor memory does get me into trouble sometimes, and this may have been one of them.

There was an earlier thing to do with your wife, but I can't remember clearly what it was. I think it was that I thought - and said - that she mightn't be too keen on some attitude you'd expressed about marital fidelity. And I tried to check on your blog that I was right that you'd only been married a year (or whatever it was at the time) and you went off on one about me stalking you all over the internet, which was absurd, over the top and untrue, but you got very aerated about it. So it could be that. I won't apologise for that now. If I actually did or said something that was particularly offensive that I should apologise for, by all means explain what it was.

And finally there's the question of the moral right I claimed the Iraqis had to attack invaders, on which I've changed my mind and for which I've already apologised. But I'll happily - and very sincerely - apologise for that specifically to you, if that's what offended you so much.

Otherwise, I really don't know.

We had an exchange of PMs in Feb 2006 where I asked you to be civil, and you said "I will refrain from commenting on any of your posts ... I will pay the common courtesy of ignoring you", but also complained about some "veiled threats" (I have no idea what that refers to) that "made me realise you really are a nasty piece of work"; that I bring nothing to the flag but C+Ps, which was probably true then, but is no longer, as you'd have noticed if you brought an open mind; and said "The BFC Baghdad Chapter thread assassination was a shameful episode, belittling and mocking some guys who I happen to know": I've looked that one up, and it just seems to be a minor incidence of the perennial boots on the ground versus knowledge from other sources argument, but it's hard to tell, because 2C has edited all his posts. So I'm not sure what to make of all that. Maybe I was culpable, maybe you were reading in something that wasn't there: no way I can tell.

Anyway, if there is something terrible I've done, or that I continue to do, please tell me what it was/is, and I'll try to rectify it. In the meantime, I really would be grateful if you refrained from the continual taunts and insults.

Incidentally, what I said about my husband and sons wasn't any sort of threat - I said it to reinforce what Svizz said ("I know there are people behind those words"), to show you that you hurt not only me with the insults but also people close to me. It may only be the internet, it may only be a sort of game, but you must surely understand that such relentless hostility does hurt.

And no, I didn't demand an apology from you. I said I'd appreciate one, but didn't expect it.

I do appreciate your posts where you rip holes in my logic, usually with good reason (even if I'm usually so furious with you for all the insults that I fail to give them the rational response they deserve at the time - I often go back to work through them later), and it's a pity that my only recourse in light of all the rest has been to say I won't respond to any of your posts.

Our interests and abilities in philosophy are very different, and it's clear that I have no talent in logical syllogisms and so on, whereas you have, but I'm prepared to try to learn from your expertise. On the other hand, I'm more interested in ethics and morality, and trying to live the good life: and that includes being tolerant and civil, and treating people with respect. I am doing my best, which clearly is nothing like good enough, but just that reciprocity I asked for from you would be a big help.

I do hope this time we can resolve all this silliness.

Penta

Do you want me to go on? I don't give a fuck, do you?
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:39 pm

Sent: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:19 pm
From: Penta
To: flipflop

Subject: Afghanistan: The irony of saving shitbag journos

I realise we had an agreement:


You say "I'm not going to utter another word to you on this board". That's fine: I'll leave you alone, if you'll leave me alone. Or, if you ever change your mind, I'll answer you civilly if you'll treat me civilly, as I said before.


and I've just broken it, technically, since you've kept your side. I'm sorry. I hope my correcting a glaring factual inaccuracy is not offensive at least. I didn't think it would be right to let it stand.

Try to stay safe.
I hope one day we'll coincide again in chat.

I'll do all my sent ones later if you want?
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:50 pm

That's all I got, over to you - go on, don't refer to them, bring the fucking things out in the open, show everybody here what a swell girl you are and that Jaeger and me are all wrong.

See I really don't care how I'm seen here, my 'board image' means as much to me as yesterday's weather forecast - I couldn't give a flying fuck, I even get to win the 'mach three post in a row insanity' award
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby Penta » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:03 pm

Don't do this, flipflop. You really don't want me to post your PM to me following the first you posted above: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:47 am; and my reply of Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:41 pm, which began:

Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to explain. And it does explain, a lot. Jaeger was right.

I'm truly sorry. I understand now why what I said about your wife, when I said it, hurt so much. And Iraq, of course.


Those are the two I was talking about. I'll post the rest of my reply if you want, but I won't post yours to me.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:07 pm

I can't post them, because I deleted them you fucking weirdo, you're the one who catalogues and plots with her pm's, so do whatever the fuck you think you can with them. You go back to yours on a daily basis it seems, mine are history, I have better things to do with my time

See where it takes you, I can tell you now it will leave the board and go straight into the real world

Let's see the cut of your jib then
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby Jäeger » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:20 pm

Eerie stuff that filpflop. The constant obsession with apology and the justification of her reprehensible actions because she was "provoked". The "we should ignore each other" truce broken, but only to correct "factual inaccuracies" and not to start another argument. Using your real-name to address you when you didn't give it to her and the hints at other off-board things just to let you know she knows. And then the reliance on her "poor memory" to cover things. It's definitely penta.

Even his idea that I have a little clique of supporters to whom I constantly write of my woes, appealing for support, or that I beg RYP to intercede on my behalf:


Are you constitutionally incapable of being honest? I was among the clique of people you were bothering to "support" you on threads or bouncing ideas off of as far as how to bait your enemies and the like. I told you then and I'm telling you now, strategising about how to "go after people" and mustering up "support" on an inter-net forum rather than just conceding when you're wrong or ignoring the offending parties is fucking weird. But you thought it was great fun, trolling the board like that, and you put great effort into it. I know it and you know it. Hell, remember flipflop popped into our chat session when you were begging me to find a way out of the logical (and he wasn't calling you names at that time) demolition he did on one of your posts, so you wouldn't have to concede that you were wrong? Then you say that nothing ever happened and wonder why I don't trust you. You're either a compulsive liar or you just see reality way, way differently than normal folks.

Same thing with begging RYP to intercede; YOU told me that during your meltdown that Pelton and you were trying to sort the whole situation. You also told me that Pelton made flipflop come back to him hat in hand apologising profusely and admitting that it was all his fault. That's why you came back remember, because you were vindicated.

So, you either made all this shit up then or you're making it up now. Either way, it's not a good indication of honesty.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby flipflop » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:24 pm

Jäeger wrote:.

You also told me that Pelton made flipflop come back to him hat in hand apologising profusely and admitting that it was all his fault. That's why you came back remember, because you were vindicated.


Is that how it happened? Well, either Pelton is a bare-faced liar or Penta is, mmm...

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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby seektravelinfo » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:32 pm

Penta, my advice to you, my two cents; unsolicited, is that you let this go. You just drop it. Browze the board for worthwhile topics and share your insights on those. Do not continue this unpleasant and provocative tit for tat and he said this and she said this and then she went and did this and it made him do that and he is a liar and she is a liar ad nauseum. It's the past, it's over. Not everything has to have a resolution and be tied up into a nice tidy package with a pretty red bow.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby rickshaw92 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:05 pm

seektravelinfo wrote:Penta, my advice to you, my two cents; unsolicited, is that you let this go. You just drop it. Browze the board for worthwhile topics and share your insights on those. Do not continue this unpleasant and provocative tit for tat and he said this and she said this and then she went and did this and it made him do that and he is a liar and she is a liar ad nauseum. It's the past, it's over. Not everything has to have a resolution and be tied up into a nice tidy package with a pretty red bow.



Pipe down my good woman. We have only gotten to page 15 for cryin out loud!
Im reallly fuclimg pissed but fespite that I can still hit a tarfet at 1000m plus. mayVRVe bnot tonight but it qint beyond the wit if man. Nowhammy.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby rickshaw92 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:07 pm

And where the fook is the fookin cunt o fookin p who started this fookin shite. Research this bitch!
Im reallly fuclimg pissed but fespite that I can still hit a tarfet at 1000m plus. mayVRVe bnot tonight but it qint beyond the wit if man. Nowhammy.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby Penta » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:47 pm

You're right, seeks. Thank you. But ... there's always a but. :(

I think I need to answer this, because it involves someone else (RYP) who hasn't given permission for this "let's all spill it all out" game. But I'll leave the rest.

Same thing with begging RYP to intercede; YOU told me that during your meltdown that Pelton and you were trying to sort the whole situation. You also told me that Pelton made flipflop come back to him hat in hand apologising profusely and admitting that it was all his fault.


It's not at all an accurate version of what I told you, J, or what actually happened. I did, confidentially, give you the gist of what RYP had said to me, because I was trying to work out what the hell was going on and what I should do, and I wanted your advice. But that is neither what he said nor what I told you. And you have no right whatsoever to break that confidence, since it doesn't only concern us. You surprise me. And I would call that snitching.

I didn't ask (let alone "beg" - loaded word) RYP to intercede, though I thanked him when he did. I told him I didn't want flipflop to leave. He announced on the board that he had made me a moderator, which was crap, and I promptly told him that was his worst ever idea. He also announced that ff and I had made some sort of pact, which we hadn't. He told me something about what ff had said to him. And then ff did leave for a while.

So no, flipflop, that's not quite how it happened.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
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Re: Danger-zone tourism research

Postby Sri Lanky » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:01 pm

Your minds are way too active. I'm amazed at the degree to which thoughts and words occupy your minds. You guys need to shake your booty....get out there and shake your ass or something.

...and dog:don't you mean bambalance?
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