Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

The Black Flag Cafe is the place travelers come to share stories and advice. Moderated by Robert Young Pelton the author of The World's Most Dangerous Places.

Moderator: coldharvest

Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Penta » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:27 am

As a huge fan of Top Gear, I normally regard the presenters' brand of irreverence as a part of the rough and tumble that goes with having a sense of humour. I've been on the show three times and had a go at their celebrity-lap challenge, and I would love to receive a fourth invite. But I think that's unlikely once they have read this. If, however, it makes the Lads question their behaviour for a second – ambitious, I know – it will be worth it.

I normally remain below the parapet when these frenetic arguments about comedy and taste break out. But this time, I've had enough of the regular defence you tend to hear – the tired line that it's "just a laugh", a bit of "harmless fun".

Some of the Lads' comments again, in case you missed them. "Mexican cars are just going to be lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus, with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat" (Richard Hammond). Mexican food is "sick with cheese on it" (James May).

Jeremy Clarkson added to the mirth by suggesting that the Mexican ambassador (a certain Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza) would be so busy sleeping he wouldn't register any outrage. (He wasn't and he did.)

OK, guys, I've got some great ideas for your next show. Jeremy, why not have James describe some kosher food as looking like "sick with cheese on it"? No? Thought not. Even better, why not describe some Islamic fundamentalists as lazy and feckless?

Feel the silence. They're all pretty well organised these days, aren't they, those groups? Better stick to those that are least problematic.

Old people? Special needs? I know – Mexicans! There aren't enough of them to be troublesome, no celebrities to be upset. And most of them are miles and miles away.

The BBC's initial mealy-mouthed apology was pitiful. It cited the more benign rivalry that exists between European nations (ah, those arrogant French, over-organised Germans), and in doing so neatly sidestepped one hugely important fact – ethnicity. All the examples it uses to legitimise this hateful rubbish are relatively prosperous countries full of white people. How about if the Lads had described Africans as lazy, feckless etc? Or Pakistanis?

What's more, this was all spouted by the presenters on one of the BBC's most successful programmes, with ratings that could only fail to impress Simon Cowell (very fast lap time). Forget the World Service; overseas, Top Gear is more frequently the public face of the BBC.

The Beeb's hand-wringing suggested tolerance of casual racism, arguably the most sinister kind. It's easy to spot the ones with the burning crosses. Besides, there is not a shred of truth in Top Gear's "comic" stereotype. I can tell you from my own experience, living in the US, Mexicans work themselves to the bone doing all the dirty thankless jobs that the white middle-class natives won't do.

What makes it worse is that the Lads wear this offensive behaviour as a badge of pride, pleased that they have annoyed those whom they regard, in another lazy stereotype, as sandal-wearing vegans with beards and no sense of humour.

Well here's some Twitter hot news: I don't have a beard, I'm not a vegan, I don't wear sandals (unless they're Birkenstocks, of course), and I have, I think, a sense of humour. I also know something about comedy. It's true there are no hard fast rules; it's often down to judgment calls. It's safe to say, though, that you can get away with saying unsayable things if it's done with some sense of culpability.

I've been fortunate enough to work with the likes of Peter Baynham, Armando Iannucci, Chris Morris, Simon Pegg, Julia Davis, Caroline Aherne, Ruth Jones, and the Mighty Boosh – some of the funniest and most innovative people in British comedy. And Rob Brydon too.

It's a diverse, eclectic group of people with one common denominator: they could all defend and justify their comedy from a moral standpoint. They are laughing at hypocrisy, human frailty, narrow-mindedness. They mock pomposity and arrogance.

If I say anything remotely racist or sexist as Alan Partridge, for example, the joke is abundantly clear. We are laughing at a lack of judgment and ignorance. With Top Gear it is three rich, middle-aged men laughing at poor Mexicans. Brave, groundbreaking stuff, eh?

There is a strong ethical dimension to the best comedy. Not only does it avoid reinforcing prejudices, it actively challenges them. Put simply, in comedy, as in life, we ought to think before we speak. This wasn't one of those occasions. In fact, the comments were about as funny as a cold sweat followed by shooting pains down the left arm. In fact, if I can borrow from the Wildean wit of Richard Hammond, the comic approach was "lazy", "feckless" and "flatulent".

Richard has his tongue so far down the back of Jeremy's trousers he could forge a career as the back end of a pantomime horse. His attempt to foster some Clarkson-like maverick status with his "edgy" humour is truly tragic. He reminds you of the squirt at school as he hangs round Clarkson the bully, as if to say, "I'm with him". Meanwhile, James May stands at the back holding their coats as they beat up the boy with the stutter.

It's not entirely their fault, of course. Part of the blame must lie with what some like to call the "postmodern" reaction to overzealous political correctness. Sometimes, it's true, things need a shakeup; orthodoxies need to be challenged. But this sort of ironic approach has been a licence for any halfwit to vent the prejudices they'd been keeping in the closet since Love Thy Neighbour was taken off the air.

Also, a factor little picked up on elsewhere in the Lads' remarks is that they do, after all, present a car show. And archaic attitudes are endemic in a lot of motoring journalism. I confess I am an avid consumer and I have to wade through a sea of lazy cliches to get to anything genuinely illuminating.

Jeremy unwittingly cast the template for this. Twenty years ago, when I bought Performance Car magazine, his column was the first I would turn to. It was slightly annoying but unfailingly funny. Since then there have been legions of pretenders who just don't pass muster. There is a kneejerk, brainless reaction to any legislation that may have a detrimental effect on their God-given right to drive cars anywhere at any speed that they consider safe. They often remind me of the National Rifle Association in the US who, I'm sure we can all agree, are a bunch of nutters. It's a kind of "airbags are for poofs" mentality and, far from being shocking, it's just shockingly dull.

It would be fine if it was confined to a bunch of grumpy men in bad jeans smoking Marlboros at the side of the Millbrook test track, but it's not. As I pointed out, it's the voice of one of the BBC's most successful programmes.

The Lads have this strange notion that if they are being offensive it bestows on them a kind of anti-establishment aura of coolness; in fact, like their leather jackets and jeans, it is uber-conservative (which isn't cool).

Gentlemen, I don't believe in half-criticisms and this has nothing to do with my slow lap times. But, increasingly, you each look like a middle-aged punk rocker pogoing at his niece's wedding. That would be funny if you weren't regarded by some people as role models. Big viewing figures don't give you impunity – they carry responsibility. Start showing some, tuck your shirts in, be a bit funnier and we'll pretend it all never happened.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
User avatar
Penta
Ruby Tuesday
 
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: UK, Spain

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby rickshaw92 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:48 pm

I've been on the show three times and had a go at their celebrity-lap challenge


You were a star in a reasonably priced car Penta?

"Mexican cars are just going to be lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus, with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat"


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

why not describe some Islamic fundamentalists as lazy and feckless?


Cos these lot are far from lazy, sheesh, some dude drew a funny cartoon of their pope and look how quick they were to get all uppity.

How about if the Lads had described Africans as lazy


Might have a point there, saw lots of em just sittin about today and every time I come here.
Im reallly fuclimg pissed but fespite that I can still hit a tarfet at 1000m plus. mayVRVe bnot tonight but it qint beyond the wit if man. Nowhammy.
User avatar
rickshaw92
Pikey Bastard
 
Posts: 9165
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:28 am
Location: Airport Inn trailer park

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby coldharvest » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Mexicans aren't lazy.
Homicidal, illiterate and obese to be sure but certainly not lazy.
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
User avatar
coldharvest
Abdul Rahman
 
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:36 am
Location: Island of Misfit Toys

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby friendlyskies » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:21 pm

Wow. Mexicans are lazy? Oh, my sides are aching because of the unstoppable laughter resulting the from the cleverness of that witty, original joke, I can barely stand it. What's next? Jews are cheap? Poles are stupid? The French are cowardly? With material like that, these comic geniuses deserve their own gig on a budget cruise ship, right next to the all-you-can-eat buffet.

Image
Ha, ha. Lazy Mexicans, their cars are funny.
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Postby el3so » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:42 pm

They often remind me of the National Rifle Association in the US who, I'm sure we can all agree, are a bunch of nutters.
Whatever dude.
skynet prompt: witty line, a bit offensive, medium levels of spelling error, Rastafy by 10 % or so
User avatar
el3so
Creepy Uncle
 
Posts: 8900
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:25 am
Location: never-ending labyrinth of pain

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby shivers » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:50 pm

sick with cheese on it


Clearly, these Top Gear folks are sorely in need of a good neighborhood taco joint.
We are miserable sinners,
Filthy fuckers,
Arseholes!
User avatar
shivers
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:23 pm
Location: eating refried beans

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Caliban » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:17 pm

OOOOH Steve Coogan having made a minor resurgence as a comedian after his glistening hollywood career therefore thinks he can be the voice of the opressed masses. Leading the cry of dissent against the BBC, so loud that you could almost hardly hear a mouse fart in the background.

Does this now mean we are at war with Mexico? Or does it really mean that Coogan took this opportunity to rip into them in revenge for the occasions in head to head conversations where Clarkson has made Coogan look like the vapid self possessed twat that he is?

example -
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2006/07/p ... vs-coogan/

Clarkson stiffs him every time. Sour grapes, surely not?!

A complete none story that is justly deserving of being in the rants section. Ask the average citizen in this country what the Mexican ambassador had recently complained about and they would probably say "Can't get a decent taco in London?"

friendlyskies wrote:Mexicans are lazy? Oh, my sides are aching because of the unstoppable laughter resulting the from the cleverness of that witty, original joke, I can barely stand it. What's next? Jews are cheap? Poles are stupid? The French are cowardly?


Yes, that is pretty much what they do. Lowest common denominator undoubtedly but it sells their product. Ask most people in this country about top gear and they will either love it or hate it ,but allwill know the show and I doubt that most who watched it batted an eye lid or even are aware of the complaint by the Mexican Ambassador, for what was a couple of perhaps tasteless throw away lines based on what is after all a long time stereotype of the sleepy, ponchoed, mexican peasant hidden under a sombrero used as an analogy of mexican cars.

Im sure Jeremy Clarkson, who said the lines couldn't give a fuck about what Steve Coogan thinks. I know I couldn't
"If you sit still the birds shit on you, even Buddha, life's short so get out there and do something"
"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I’m happy. I can’t figure it out. What am I doing right?" Snoopy
User avatar
Caliban
Oeconomus Cum Vagus
 
Posts: 5181
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:04 pm
Location: The "pool of life"

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Penta » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:39 pm

Coogan's funny. Clarkson's a Jeremy.
Shes never interfered with me. I have no complaints about her.
Same here.
Mega ditto.
I met her once and I found her to be a nice lady. Not kookey in any way.
Penta has always been gracious, kind and very sane in all my interactions with her.
User avatar
Penta
Ruby Tuesday
 
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: UK, Spain

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby friendlyskies » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:16 pm

Oh, I'm not offended, but it does display a telling ignorance about Mexican custom cars. Seriously, where do they think the Tijuana tuck (the interior style popular with customizers back in the 1950s and early 1960s, not the sex change operation lol) was invented?

It would be analogous to a US "automotive expert" telling a joke about how Britain had never produced luxury cars, because he or she had never heard of Jaguar and Rolls Royce. Not exactly offensive, just.... what?

Image
The Tijuana tuck. The slang term for the sex change operation derives from this classic
style of interior, popularized on the US side of the border by painter Larry Watson, who took
his cars - including those painted for Cher, various Saudi princes, etc - to tapiceros
who specialized in this type of clean, yet still clearly custom, stitch job.
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Fenrisco » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:12 pm

el3so wrote:
They often remind me of the National Rifle Association in the US who, I'm sure we can all agree, are a bunch of nutters.
Whatever dude.


Didn't you get the memo? Bigotry against Americans is sanctioned - nay, laudable! Especially if you're a parochial arse like Coogan (who would do well to ask himself why Top Gear is so internationally successful and he is not). Little-englanders aren't allowed to snipe at jocks, micks, taffs, pakis or jungle bunnies any more so Johnny Yank gets all the jealousy, fear and loathing.

Clarkson's public persona is that of a parochial arse as well, of course, but he has the tremendous advantage of not sounding like Alan Partridge. Clarkson is a smart guy playing dumb, which for better or worse is entertaining.
"Do What Keepeth Thou from Wilting Shall Be the Loophole of The Law"
User avatar
Fenrisco
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Taiwan - Republic of China

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby friendlyskies » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:06 pm

Fenrisco wrote:
el3so wrote:
They often remind me of the National Rifle Association in the US who, I'm sure we can all agree, are a bunch of nutters.
Whatever dude.


Didn't you get the memo? Bigotry against Americans is sanctioned - nay, laudable! Especially if you're a parochial arse like Coogan (who would do well to ask himself why Top Gear is so internationally successful and he is not). Little-englanders aren't allowed to snipe at jocks, micks, taffs, pakis or jungle bunnies any more so Johnny Yank gets all the jealousy, fear and loathing.


That's not bigotry against USAmericans, that's just a swipe at members of the NRA - almost 4 million people, or slightly more than 1% of the US population. Actually, calling US citizens "Yanks" is much more likely to be offensive, if we're from the Southeast.
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Fenrisco » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:17 am

Apologies - "Billy Yank and Johnny Reb" then.
"Do What Keepeth Thou from Wilting Shall Be the Loophole of The Law"
User avatar
Fenrisco
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Taiwan - Republic of China

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby friendlyskies » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:28 am

Fenrisco wrote:Apologies - "Billy Yank and Johnny Reb" then.


Much better.
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby Rapier09 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:29 pm

friendlyskies wrote:
That's not bigotry against USAmericans, that's just a swipe at members of the NRA - almost 4 million people, or slightly more than 1% of the US population. Actually, calling US citizens "Yanks" is much more likely to be offensive, if we're from the Southeast.


There is plenty of Yankees living in the South-East these days.
Rapier09
 

Re: Steve Coogan on Top Gear and Mexican "jokes"

Postby flipflop » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:53 pm

Steve Coogan on the northern English working class:

Image

But, like Fenrisco says, it's ok if the butt of your stereotype jokes is white and preferably American/British

Coogan isn't funny, neither is Clarkson and his shite programme, but the real story here is that the Guardianistas are in uproar that their beloved BBC's biggest export is three white, overweight, mildly xenophobic middle class boors

That's the real comedy right there

Cheers
Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country - Bertrand Russell
User avatar
flipflop
Cuntus Maximus
 
Posts: 8382
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:11 am
Location: Arse Full Of Chips

Next

Return to Black Flag Cafe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 19 guests