Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikely He

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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:27 pm

Even if you are within the law you can still be sued in some jurisdictions.

It depends on who and where you are; city, state, vehicle- home(castle).

In Houston if you feel your life or a third party's life is in danger and you are in or on your property you have no obligation to retreat. Blast away.

I "hear" it's a different story in Dallas.

Haven't you heard the saying "better to be tried by twelve than carried by six" ?
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Michael » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:57 pm

Thing to remember is this is Nevada, not New York, Chicago or San Francisco, so shooting a rapist is not considered a bad thing here. While it would not be illegal to have a concealed weapon in your possession on campus, you still need to go through the steps to get your concealed carry permit from the Sheriff's Office. They did amend the bill so that you couldn't carry a firearm into a sporting event (or the parking lot) if the venue can hold more than 1,000 people...since nickel beer night and guns don't necessarily go well together, that wasn't considered unreasonable.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Lost Boy » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:53 pm

friendlyskies wrote:OK, so if I'm not allowed to shoot a rapist without getting sued or sent to jail, wtf is the point of carrying the weapon? So my choice is between rape and going to jail for 30 years, getting fined my life savings, and losing my right to vote, own a passport, or own firearms?

Um,,,,,


It is very rare for there to be a completely happy ending in a defensive shooting scenario. The outcomes are as follows:
1.) You don't defend yourself. You are raped and/or murdered.
2.) You attempt to defend yourself. Due to lack of training/skill/proper mindset, you are raped and/or murdered.
3.) You defend yourself. Bad guy(s) killed or wounded. Depending upon the circumstances and jurisdiction, the legality of the force you used to defend yourself may be called into question. As Hitoru said, "better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." You are convicted or you are not. Afterwards, bad guy(s) or their next of kin get a ambulance chasing lawyer, who files civil lawsuit against you. You either settle, lose, or win (and maybe countersue, if they have anything worth going after).
4.) You defend yourself. In addition to neutralizing your threat, you also accidentally kill or maim innocent bystanders. This is a tragedy of nightmarish proportions that you will likely never live down, even if you are not convicted.
5.) You defend yourself. The circumstances are so obviously in your favor and you live in a free state (i.e. not New York, New Jersey, California, Wisconsin, Illinois, or other states that have restrictive laws that favor criminals over their victims), and the case is so clear cut that no lawyer takes the case of the scumbags to try to sue you. You may suffer some nightmares or family trauma, but overall, you are okay. If a deadly shooting is unavoidable, then this is probably the best outcome you can hope for.

The point is, there are a lot of moral and legal questions that go into the decision to defend yourself, that deserve thought before the actual situation arrises. For example, I would rather risk going to prison than let my family be hurt or raped by a sociopath. On the other hand, even if I lived in a jurisdiction that justifies the use of deadly force to protect my property, I would rather let my car be stolen than kill someone to stop that from happening (unless of course my kid was in the back seat).

I will tell you this, though. As a woman, it is a lot easier to convince a jury that you were afraid for your life and killed a rapist than it is for a man to convince the same jury. The other thing to keep in mind is that the criminal record of the person you shoot is carefully scrutinized, and this hopefully works in your favor in the event of a trial.

If you have something worth being sued for, it's also probably a good idea to set up a Trust or LLC to protect your assets against frivolous lawsuits.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Lost Boy » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:55 pm

Hitoru wrote:Federal Law:
Ineligible Persons;
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.

Texas Law:
You must be at least 21 years of age or at least 18 years of age if currently serving in or honorably discharged from the military to get a CHL.


My mistake. Thank you for pointing that out. The fact however remains that Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the country and also enjoy one of the lowest crime and murder rates.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby BillyOblivion » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:11 pm

Hitoru wrote:I made that shit up, my point was women carrying guns on campus isn't a practical way to prevent rapes. Armed soldiers still do get raped on base.


Did you duck, or did I just aim too high?

That was sarcasm. Remember the Ft. Hood shooting? It was practically over before someone got there with a guy--because the fucking twerps in charge of the military are afraid of guns and don't let soldiers (outside of specific countries) walk around armed.

Get it--my point was that the Girl Soldiers are just like the Girl Students--under equipped to fight off aggressive males.

Although probably a large percentage of college (and military) rapes are more of the got her passed-out-drunk-and-fucked-her than put a knife to her throat and fucked her, in which case the pistol wouldn't do much good. But it might make a few feel better, and if a rapist or two got interned, then bonus.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby BillyOblivion » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:29 pm

Lost Boy wrote:2.) You attempt to defend yourself. Due to lack of training/skill/proper mindset, you are raped and/or murdered.


Oddly enough this rarely happens. It seems that in a one on one, or two on one attack (which are most of the rapes) the female, if she can get to the gun, does a good enough job that the attack is stopped. Usually she's a little beaten or cut, but that was going to happen either way.

3.) You defend yourself. Bad guy(s) killed or wounded. Depending upon the circumstances and jurisdiction, the legality of the force you used to defend yourself may be called into question. As Hitoru said, "better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." You are convicted or you are not. Afterwards, bad guy(s) or their next of kin get a ambulance chasing lawyer, who files civil lawsuit against you. You either settle, lose, or win (and maybe countersue, if they have anything worth going after).


Can you find a case where a woman, defending herself against either an unknown assailant or against someone who she had a restraining order against, was tried (not arrested. You will be arrested.) and or convicted for shooting someone she genuinely believed was a rapist? I'm sure that in the last 50 years there's been a case or two where some vicious bitch set a guy up, but I bet she still walked. I'd really like to see the case were a dude, or his family, sued the woman he attacked and won. Yes, it's happened against men who defended themselves to rigorously (B. Goetz lost not because he shot and crippled one kid, but because he continued to shoot once they were down, THEN RELOADED AND KEPT SHOOTING. Fucker must have been a lousy shot), but not often.

4.) You defend yourself. In addition to neutralizing your threat, you also accidentally kill or maim innocent bystanders. This is a tragedy of nightmarish proportions that you will likely never live down, even if you are not convicted.


This happens infrequently to police, but I've not heard of a case where a non-police officer MISSED in a defensive shooting and killed someone else. It's certainly possible, and that's what practice and training are for.


5.) You defend yourself. The circumstances are so obviously in your favor and you live in a free state (i.e. not New York, New Jersey, California, Wisconsin, Illinois, or other states that have restrictive laws that favor criminals over their victims), and the case is so clear cut that no lawyer takes the case of the scumbags to try to sue you. You may suffer some nightmares or family trauma, but overall, you are okay. If a deadly shooting is unavoidable, then this is probably the best outcome you can hope for.


A good friend of mine was a PSD in Iraq (2004/5 IIRC), and did some security work in another DP prior. I asked him about this--about the post-incident nightmares and such. He indicated that for him it wasn't a problem except for one event, and that wasn't one where he'd done any shooting, it was an IED on a bus and some of those killed were children. He felt that since he'd thought carefully about the morality of what he was going to do before he did it and had ok'd it in his mind that his killing of a specific kind of people (which is to say the kind trying to kill him or his principal, and the kind that blew up kids on buses) it was ok.

So if you intend to carry a gun, make sure you're ok with shooting people. Otherwise you might have nightmares. Then again if you don't carry the gun you might not have any dreams at all.


For example, I would rather risk going to prison than let my family be hurt or raped by a sociopath. On the other hand, even if I lived in a jurisdiction that justifies the use of deadly force to protect my property, I would rather let my car be stolen than kill someone to stop that from happening


Would you kill to keep your guns from being stolen?


If you have something worth being sued for, it's also probably a good idea to set up a Trust or LLC to protect your assets against frivolous lawsuits.


As I understand it, if the opposing lawyer can prove you set up the trust/LLC primarily to protect the assets, then it might not work. You need to talk to a lawyer--one who doesn't do trusts--about this.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Fansy » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:29 am

lol 4. "during the attempted rape you accidentally maim and kill innocent bystanders"

all those bystanders hanging around watchin someone rape you huh cause rape scenes are typically so crowded, especially with innocent ppl

and vermont has trees too. that doesnt mean they explain its crime rates

lol idiot

and htf can you rail against moral relativism while at the same time advocatin free thinking and individualism you shitbird one-monolithic-morality-for-all organized-religion hypocrite.

learn how to fuckin think
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby kilroy » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Fansy wrote:all those bystanders hanging around watchin someone rape you huh cause rape scenes are typically so crowded, especially with innocent ppl


kitty genovese anyone? bullets can go through walls and windows too.
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Fansy » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:04 pm

its called collateral damage son. this is war.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Texas Carnie Roadshow » Fri May 06, 2011 1:56 am

Michael wrote:Thing to remember is this is Nevada, not New York, Chicago or San Francisco, so shooting a rapist is not considered a bad thing here.


With Chicago, it's not so much that shooting a rapist is a bad thing.
I doubt many people will care much about a dead rapist here.
But owning the gun you killed that rapist with is a deplorable act, and that's why you'll get arrested.
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Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Michael » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:17 pm

We can all breathe a little easier now...the bill died in the Senate Judiciary Committee on the last day of the legislative session.
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