Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikely He

The Black Flag Cafe is the place travelers come to share stories and advice. Moderated by Robert Young Pelton the author of The World's Most Dangerous Places.

Moderator: coldharvest

Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikely He

Postby Lost Boy » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:09 pm

Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikely Hero in Nevada Woman

By Claudia Cowan
Published April 08, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Across the country, lawmakers are debating whether universities should let students and faculty with permits carry their concealed weapon on campus. Those who want to put an end to such gun-free zones have found an unlikely hero in a petite, soft spoken, young woman who wonders why colleges protect most Constitutional rights, but not the one that matters most when staring into the face of a violent criminal.
Amanda Collins, 25, is a wife and new mom, and a concealed weapon permit holder for years. At her father's law office in Reno, she showed us the 9-mm Glock she carries for her safety.
"It's got a pretty standard magazine," she said, "and night sights so you can see in the dark when you're aiming."
However, Collins couldn't aim her gun at the serial rapist who attacked her at the University of Nevada at Reno, where she was a student. That's because, like most public colleges outside of Utah and Colorado, UNR is a "gun free" zone. The rule required her to leave her gun at home, leaving her defenseless the one time she needed its protection most.
In October of 2007, while walking to her car after a night class, Collins was grabbed from behind in a university parking garage less than 300 yards from a campus police office. The school's "gun-free" designation meant nothing to James Biela, a serial rapist with a gun of his own, who saw Collins as an easy target. "He put a firearm to my temple," she recounted, "clocked off the safety, and told me not to say anything, before he raped me."
The university has since installed more emergency call boxes and lights in the parking structure, but Collins says that won't stop an attacker who knows the campus is a gun-free zone, a policy she believes invites crime, and may have even emboldened the man who raped her.
Just months later, Biela went on to murder 19-year old Brianna Dennison in a case that received widespread national attention. While Biela now sits on death row, Collins is convinced the outcome would have been different had she been armed.
"I know, having been the first victim, that Brianna Dennison would still be alive, had I been able to defend myself that night."
Collins is believed to be the first victim of an on-campus rape to come out and publicly share her horrific attack in an effort to change the law and keep people safe.
Last month, she testified before Nevada lawmakers in support of , a bill that would allow concealed weapons at the state's public universities. It would abolish the requirement that permit holders get permission from the university president -- a request that is routinely denied. (Amanda was finally allowed to carry her weapon -- after she was attacked).
But others say campus gun-free zones are vital to maintain security and reduce chances of gun related accidents and violence. Reno police oppose the bill, as does an academic group called the Nevada Faculty Alliance. Dr. Gregory Brown, professor of history at UNLV and vice president of the UNLV Faculty Alliance, points to studies that argue more guns on campus translates into more violence at school.
Nevada State Senator Michael Schneider, D-Las Vegas, fears guns in the hands of students will be disastrous.
"They are not trained professionals," Schneider said. "By the time any student could get a gun, when they were attacked by someone else with a gun if they went for their gun, it would be a bad outcome."
But gun rights advocate John Lott argues that at the 70 schools that allow students and faculty with permits to carry guns, "not one has experienced the type of harm predicted by opponents. Not a single permit holder on these campuses has been involved in a firearm accident or crime."
For Collins, the ban defies logic.
"I don't understand why (the state) trusts good, responsible people to be able to have their firearm across the street, and as soon as they cross an arbitrary line, they somehow lose all reason and ability to be able to be competent with that responsibility. It makes no sense to me at all."
Her main argument comes from self protection. "Everyone deserves a chance to defend themselves," she says. "The criminals who are intent on committing a crime don't care about what the rules and regulations are. The only ones that do are the law abiding citizens, and those are the ones who are permitted to carry everywhere else."
Later this month, SB 231 heads to the Senate floor, where Schneider vows to block it.
A dozen other states, including Florida, Idaho, and Texas, are also debating whether to lift gun bans on college campuses. As traumatic as it to relive her attack, Collins says she'll testify wherever and whenever she can to help make that happen.
"If a principle exists it must be immutable, for that is what a principle is - a truth standing apart from the mood of the times." - Jeff Cooper
User avatar
Lost Boy
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:31 pm
Location: California

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Michael » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:45 pm

The bill is still working its way through the process.
Michael
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:04 am
Location: Nevada

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:01 am

Their are lot more important subjects that need attention than if college kids should be carrying guns on campus.

Well over half of community college students are unprepared for college classes — the number approaches 70 percent at Houston Community College.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Michael » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Hitoru wrote:Their are lot more important subjects that need attention than if college kids should be carrying guns on campus.

Well over half of community college students are unprepared for college classes — the number approaches 70 percent at Houston Community College.

Unless you happen to be the rape victim, in which case you might order your priorities slightly differently.
Michael
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:04 am
Location: Nevada

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:15 pm

You are more likely to get raped on a army base than a college campus.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby BillyOblivion » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:14 am

Hitoru wrote:You are more likely to get raped on a army base than a college campus.


And of course we know how well armed every solders wandering around on military bases are.

Also I'd like to see that statistic backed up--having spent more time than I should on college campuses and more than a bit of time on military bases, I really doubt it.
BillyOblivion
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:58 am

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:30 pm

I made that shit up, my point was women carrying guns on campus isn't a practical way to prevent rapes. Armed soldiers still do get raped on base.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Lost Boy » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:24 pm

Hitoru wrote:I made that shit up, my point was women carrying guns on campus isn't a practical way to prevent rapes. Armed soldiers still do get raped on base.


What a statist point of view. In an issue like this, statistics become irrelevant, as they are of no consolation at all to those who fall victim to them. Furthermore, this bill only seeks to correct a wrong- the right to carry a weapon is one that we as hairless apes with opposing digits are born with. It is only after we are born that our rights are taken away by laws drafted at the hands of elitists who are exempt from them.

Finally, I'll add that no 'No Guns on Campus' law has ever prevented a shooting. Virginia Tech has a very strict 'No Guns on Campus' law. This simply allowed Cho to have more confidence that he would be facing no armed resistance in carrying out his plan.

The bottom line is, it's already a crime to murder someone. It is foolish, expensive, and vastly ineffective to outlaw the means of doing so. In an issue such as this, the best thing a government has ever done is stay out of the way.
"If a principle exists it must be immutable, for that is what a principle is - a truth standing apart from the mood of the times." - Jeff Cooper
User avatar
Lost Boy
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:31 pm
Location: California

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby coldharvest » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:41 pm

Lost Boy wrote:In an issue such as this, the best thing a government has ever done is stay out of the way.

100%
I know the law. And I have spent my entire life in its flagrant disregard.
User avatar
coldharvest
Abdul Rahman
 
Posts: 25677
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:36 am
Location: Island of Misfit Toys

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:50 pm

I don't care about statistics, (college) kids are idiots.
*Edit. I have forgotten you have to be 21 to carry.

Anyway keep your hands off her tits or she'll shoot !
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Lost Boy » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:47 pm

Hitoru wrote:I don't care about statistics, (college) kids are idiots.
*Edit. I have forgotten you have to be 21 to carry.


Actually, in Vermont you can legally own a rifle or shotgun at 16, and own/carry a pistol at 18, openly or concealed. No permit required. According to your logic about kids being idiots, I guess it's a fluke that they have one of the lowest murder rates in the country.

The reason why college 'kids are idiots is because our politically-correct liberalized mainstream educational system is engaging in the relentless pussification of our youth. They are sheltered from responsibilities, consequences, and reality. Teachers are increasingly shying away from using red ink to correct papers, because it is too harsh. Some schools have gotten rid of the 'F' grade, or even grading systems altogether. They are spoon-fed a proverbial bullshit philosophy of moral relativism, taught to embrace a lack of competition, and intolerance for free-thinking and individualism.
"If a principle exists it must be immutable, for that is what a principle is - a truth standing apart from the mood of the times." - Jeff Cooper
User avatar
Lost Boy
BFCus Regularus
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:31 pm
Location: California

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby friendlyskies » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:02 pm

Is it legal to murder someone because they might be trying to rape you? Because once they're on top of you, it's kind of too late if they're physically stronger - you really need to shoot them before they get too close. Which is fine with me.... but there needs to be some kind of legal protection for the woman (or man; 1 in every seven rapes is supposedly a man raping another man) who is killing the rapist.

See, my worry is this. Let's say I'm walking through campus and I see some guy who is trying to rape me. I shoot him, but unfortunately he survives. Then he talks to his lawyers and is like, "Hey, I was just walking down the street, I wasn't going to rape her, she just fucking shot me." And of course I can't disprove him - since I wasn't actually raped (thanks to the gun), it's not like there's any trauma or semen for the cops to take photos of for court. So what happens then? Do I get nailed for assault, because I shot a rapist? Or does he go to jail for attempted rape? Or do we just call it even?

And if we call it even, what's to stop a malicious person from claiming that someone tried to rape them?
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:27 pm

Lost Boy wrote:
Hitoru wrote:I don't care about statistics, (college) kids are idiots.
*Edit. I have forgotten you have to be 21 to carry.


Actually, in Vermont you can legally own a rifle or shotgun at 16, and own/carry a pistol at 18, openly or concealed. No permit required. According to your logic about kids being idiots, I guess it's a fluke that they have one of the lowest murder rates in the country.



Vermont gun laws are an anomaly and you've accused me of being a statist ?

Who ever said I was logical ?

All I know is I have a crew of 18-21 y/o's that work for me and I fraternize with them and their friends. Most of them shouldn't possess airsoft guns much less hand guns. I have trained my core workers in firearm safety - marksmanship and I take them shooting/hunting , so I trust them with firearms-but not their cohorts. Bunch of fucking morons they are. They go to the local com-college, ride around smoking blunts while playing with their kel-tec's.

My main problem with College age kids is that most of them lack the training not to mention the maturity to responsibly carry hand guns on campus and in classrooms. You know as well as I do CHL classes solely are not going to instill that in a 21 y/o.

Aren't you the dude that works at Tac Pro ?
I would hope you know Fed & Texas law better than me.

Federal Law:
Ineligible Persons;
Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.

Texas Law:
You must be at least 21 years of age or at least 18 years of age if currently serving in or honorably discharged from the military to get a CHL.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby Hitoru » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:31 pm

friendlyskies wrote:Is it legal to murder someone because they might be trying to rape you? Because once they're on top of you, it's kind of too late if they're physically stronger - you really need to shoot them before they get too close. Which is fine with me.... but there needs to be some kind of legal protection for the woman (or man; 1 in every seven rapes is supposedly a man raping another man) who is killing the rapist.

See, my worry is this. Let's say I'm walking through campus and I see some guy who is trying to rape me. I shoot him, but unfortunately he survives. Then he talks to his lawyers and is like, "Hey, I was just walking down the street, I wasn't going to rape her, she just fucking shot me." And of course I can't disprove him - since I wasn't actually raped (thanks to the gun), it's not like there's any trauma or semen for the cops to take photos of for court. So what happens then? Do I get nailed for assault, because I shot a rapist? Or does he go to jail for attempted rape? Or do we just call it even?

And if we call it even, what's to stop a malicious person from claiming that someone tried to rape them?


That is a great number of points F/S.
Even if you get no-billed by a grand jury they are going to sue the shit out of you no matter what.
What are you? Some short sighted trigger puller? - RR3 .
Mr.wRong.
User avatar
Hitoru
Arbol Basura
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Opponents of Gun-Free Zones at Universities Find Unlikel

Postby friendlyskies » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:11 pm

OK, so if I'm not allowed to shoot a rapist without getting sued or sent to jail, wtf is the point of carrying the weapon? So my choice is between rape and going to jail for 30 years, getting fined my life savings, and losing my right to vote, own a passport, or own firearms?

Um,,,,,
"4 cylinder Camaro=communism" El Presidente

"You can smoke salmon but it's not quite the same as smoking heroin." nanuq
User avatar
friendlyskies
Vata Loca
 
Posts: 7459
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: Atlantis

Next

Return to Black Flag Cafe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

cron