Is voting compulsory/optional where you are?

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Re: In Canada

Postby Renard » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:50 am

SRR wrote:Voting is entirely optional and even if you do vote your ballots are automatically thrown out and the Liberal Party of Ontario declared the victor. This is just common law right now but they are trying to get it passed through legislation. They just need to create a new law to suck more tax revenues from Alberta to do it, and that's on the table too.


Votes are thrown out and the Liberal Party declared the victor? Wow, a bit of an exaggeration, non?

I find it strange how you are willing to attack CdnSkyDiva's position on Bush, but feel free to bash the Liberals in Canada a priori.

Now you're a smart guy, SRR. I have no doubt that you have noticed that the Liberals are in minority right now, and barely got a fourth consecutive mandate, never mind survive the first parliamentary vote of confidence.

Compare this situation with Australia, where John Howard just won a historical and unprecedented fourth consecutive mandate. Nary a peep or foul cry out of opposition backers though, even after John Howard brought Australia into the Iraq war, without the popular support of a clear majority of Australians. I predict also that Tony Blair will probably carry the next British parliamentary elections too.

The point is, the Liberals, love them or hate them, are the best option Canada has right now, just like the Liberals are for Australia, just like Labour is for Britain.
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Postby muskrat » Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:51 am

Others factors at work in Oz Renard like a great economy, biggest surplus ever, spending on infastructure and new military assets. People are happy, unemployment is very low, we were very lucky that no army/airforce/navy killed in Iraq or Afghanistan. A bit of terror type unstability targetting Australians in Asia to our north didnt hurt the re-election of the govt either.

People here wanted someone they see as tough and experienced yet compassionate and a good economic manager with a generally good team around him that dont spin or bullshit too much. We reach out to other countries in the area. The sweeping victory now allows the control of the senate, so this government is now very powerful. The PM becomes the 3rd longest serving in the country.

In contrast the labor opposition is inexperienced, angry and historical poor economic managers. Myopic employment attidudes with no great workable plans or vision for the future. They are pissed again, but they need to be less dickensian and more savvy if they want to present an undeniable argument to be elected.

Easy guess who I voted for.

Cheers MR
Last edited by muskrat on Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Well Renard

Postby SRR » Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:30 am

Exaggerate? Moi? With regards to the liberal party, certainly no exaggeration is necessary - whatever Ontario wants, Ontario gets. As the old saying goes. The liberals are the best option for Ontario, and that's who voted for them. And yes - you may notice that several Vancouver ridings fell to the liberals, since there are a hell of a lot of displaced Ontarians here right now. But once that Trans-Canada become entirely undriveable between Revelstoke and Golden we'll take care of that!

Ah yes, the Liberal Party.... so good for the entire country. That's why when Mr. PE Trudeau died they renamed Mount Logan to Mount Trudeau, if only briefly. After all, Canada's tallest mountain looks a lot like a middle finger, which is pretty much all Trudeau gave to western Canada anyways.

Luckily they reneged on their attempt to rename Mount Logan, seeing as there are, oh, a good few thousand unnamed peaks here in B.C. and the Yukon they could name after Trudeau. In fact, I've been campaigning for a trash heap near Cache Creek to be named after Ontario's favourite Prime Minister.

Besides, we're not prone to exaggeration over here. That is a sport quite handily mastered by the federalees.
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Postby mach1 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:58 am

Yes but no one here has ever met an honest politician

they had the chance to like before being taken in by the riptide and
swell of popular malcontents with discontent

let alone heard of one

let alone VOTE for one.

Sorry forgot about hip-pocketed I'll need you later not sure for what but I'll think of something I'm sure Harper...

Oh yeah! The military! Fuck me, I'm such a dumb-ass..on the other hand
who needs the CBC, I propose drastic cuts to EVERYTHING else and I'll give you a country Canadians won't recognize. Famous last words, so voila, same old same old yet new and improved.

The days of pork barreling are over, yet the last remaining whiffs of the
burnt out passionate fires and screaming of 'accountability,accountability' haven't died out yet .

And don't forget: thats a good thing.

I think I have just discoved a key and integral crucial defining difference between us Canadians (we Canadians?) and those Americans (them Americans?)..and that is

passion versus patriotism.
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Re: Is voting compulsory/optional where you are?

Postby el3so » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:02 am

muskrat wrote:Voting in Australia for all tiers of govt is compulsory.
Voting stations in Oz opened saturday at 8am, closed at 6pm and the result was know and confirmed by around 8.30pm same day. Easy.

In the USA is voting is optional? Wouldnt that sway the outcome? What about you guys in Euroland and Canada?

Will the use of the electronic gizmos that cast doubt over the last election be used again? What about Canada and Euroland?

Same over here in Belgium: supposedly you risk a fine for not going to cast your vote. Special mandate can be given to next of kin when hospitalized or ill.
Simulation was done a couple of times for making the vote optional. Result was a return to the days of yore when a wage-worker had one vote, a farmer or tradesman had two and the very rich and powerfull had three votes each (based on taxes they pay). Seems like political interest isn't a random characteristic.

Funny thing is the voting committees are also composed of average citizens (well, one of them has to have a degree in law) so if you're the first to show up and they are missing a member, you can be forced to replace him thus spoiling an otherwise normal Sunday.
Going voting in the early morning while still swaying and smelling of the Saturday Night Fever medication is a good counter measure ;-)

Last 2 votes here where via central computers, very fast, unless there's a bunch of old-timers in front of you which cannot grasp the idea of marking something on a tv screen with a pen that doesn't use ink. Results are known and acknowledged the same evening.

Re: doubts about electronic gizmos in last election. What might be "electronical" about folks holding paper towards the light to check which piece is almost/not punched out?
Man, that made the steam-powered car look futuristic...
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Postby Renard » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:05 pm

To be sure, I am undecided on mandatory voting. But, in general my opinion tends to flow in the same direction as the decreasing participation in elections. That is, the worse it gets, the more I favour the idea, albeit reluctantly. In Canada, participation in the last federal election was just above 60%, the lowest it has ever been. I would never want to see it hit 50%. There are plenty of drawbacks to mandatory voting - forcing uninformed, irresponsible citizens to vote is a glaring one - but we can all agree that something needs to be done to reverse the trend of declining voter turnout.

I've often toyed with the idea of some sort of one-off tax credit for those who vote. I think the chance of getting back some of the money you pay into the public system would be a good, moral (and economic) incentive to vote. For example, every time there is an election, there is a chance to get an additional $50 of your own taxes back. Doesn't sound like much, but the effort required to qualify for it is rather minimal also. Sure, there are questions regarding this system too - for one, it presumes that everyone files taxes - but no system is without flaw. The aim is to choose the system with the fewest flaws.
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Postby kilroy » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:50 pm

i dont think that forcing people undereducated on the issues would be that much worse than what goes on now. most people who vote now are undereducated and misinformed on the issues. i like skiritais idea of the test thing.

then again i like buzzsaw's philosophy that the less people there are who vote, the more my vote counts, so maybe i shouldnt have a problem with lower voter participation.
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Postby Aegis » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:28 pm

kilroy wrote:i dont think that forcing people undereducated on the issues would be that much worse than what goes on now. most people who vote now are undereducated and misinformed on the issues. i like skiritais idea of the test thing.

then again i like buzzsaw's philosophy that the less people there are who vote, the more my vote counts, so maybe i shouldnt have a problem with lower voter participation.


We could always cut down on the size of the electorate, so we would always have 90+% turnout.

Ooh, or even better, cede all authority to a benevolent robot overlord.
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Postby kilroy » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:15 am

Ooh, or even better, cede all authority to a benevolent robot overlord


that works too.
when they ask how you feeling
you tell em you feeling like something important died screaming
you tell em you feeling like something even more important arrived breathing
something you should probably try feeding
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Postby Skirita » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:54 pm

Ooh, or even better, cede all authority to a benevolent robot overlord


Yeah, but then Will Smith or an astronaut named "Dave" will come along and ruin everything.
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