DIY logging

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DIY logging

Postby Woodsman » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:00 am

I am finally getting to my own land. I marked these trees 2 years ago, but it's a small timber sale, so I couldn't sell it on the commercial market - I was close, but no cigar. I will earn close to $2,000 doing it - but it will take me 4-5 weeks - maybe longer - because this is all in my spare time (I manage forests for a living - but I am not a logger).

I am using 2 chainsaws, a small kubota diesel garden tractor, a logging chain, a single axle trailer and a maul + using my truck & trailer to haul the logs. I have only cut 5 trees this evening and I have 231 marked total. I expect the log tally to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1100 - but these aren't worth much per log because they are Red pine, which is a high production species (most of these are cut by processor that can cut more per hour than I can in a week).

$2,000 for manhandling 114,080 lbs. of wood up and down slopes to the mill isn't much money. I'll be lucky if I make $12 an hour, and I already know it's going to be a complete bitch, but there is a lot of value to finishing a project like this completely alone other than money.

No pics yet, but I will have some shortly.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Michael » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:38 pm

I spent about 15 years as a forestry consultant/contractor, so I know you're digging it.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby DrakeS » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:34 pm

Very cool man.
nice choice of words Kurt. "damn shame" My arent we eloquent. Just wait till someone has a few "choice words " for you, too. Uhhh duhhh...hmmmmh
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Re: DIY logging

Postby roach coach » Mon May 03, 2010 5:45 pm

Sounds like a lot of fun. My dad taught me how to fell trees and gave me some experience with a chainsaw working at our cabin, and I wish I did it more often.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Woodsman » Mon May 03, 2010 6:02 pm

I will just say that It is a hell of a lot of labor...Part of the reason that I am not doing it right now is that I am too sore to do it right now. LOL! - Though after a few days I will be back to nailing it and will get some pics to add.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby roach coach » Mon May 03, 2010 10:21 pm

It is pretty demanding. I'm getting involved with wildland firefighting this summer, and a field day pretty much sapped my energy for the next couple of days. At least it will work me out quite a bit and harden my resolve.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Michael » Mon May 03, 2010 11:37 pm

roach coach wrote:It is pretty demanding. I'm getting involved with wildland firefighting this summer, and a field day pretty much sapped my energy for the next couple of days. At least it will work me out quite a bit and harden my resolve.

What, where, and for whom?
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Re: DIY logging

Postby HockeyGuy » Tue May 04, 2010 12:39 am

That's amazing. Back in the day doing the heli-logging thing, we would use a Sikorsky 64 (sp) and the cycle was 90 seconds between the mountain and landing zone. Average weight 14-20k. It would take less than 15 minutes, but the fuel would probably cost...
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Re: DIY logging

Postby roach coach » Tue May 04, 2010 4:23 am

Michael wrote:
roach coach wrote:It is pretty demanding. I'm getting involved with wildland firefighting this summer, and a field day pretty much sapped my energy for the next couple of days. At least it will work me out quite a bit and harden my resolve.

What, where, and for whom?

Right now, I'm just starting off. I just finished the last of my training, which culminated in my receiving of a "red card" with my qualifications. I may take a job with an on-call crew based near Sacramento, or some of the local forests near there may hire me.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Vincent » Tue May 04, 2010 2:11 pm

Less than $2 per tree? Then why do I pay $3 per 2X4?

Who speaks for the trees?
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Postby el3so » Tue May 04, 2010 2:57 pm

Woodsman wrote: $2,000 for manhandling 114,080 lbs. of wood up and down slopes to the mill isn't much money. I'll be lucky if I make $12 an hour
You'll be lucky if you do not get seriously injured while doing all this. Take care and take your time is all I can say.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Michael » Tue May 04, 2010 3:30 pm

roach coach wrote:I may take a job with an on-call crew based near Sacramento, or some of the local forests near there may hire me.

Check over here on the Nevada side. BLM, BIA, and Forest Service have a few crews in the Reno-Carson area.
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Woodsman » Tue May 04, 2010 4:11 pm

Vincent wrote:Less than $2 per tree? Then why do I pay $3 per 2X4?

Who speaks for the trees?


Great question, Vincent!

Explanation: stumpage price (landowner's revenue) + logging costs + profit, milling costs + profit, kiln and other finishing costs + profit, distributor costs + profit, retailer costs + profit, end use cost + profit, and all the transportation and costs + profit associated with each individual supply chain stage = contributing economic factor.

This is what the "economic multiplier factor" is about - there is no real-world way to estimate the factor (and it is dynamic) accurately - since there are so many markets for a given species, but one rule of thumb that seems reasonable to me is 1:12, which means for every $1 for stumpage (in terms of the price of the standing log which is currently going for somewhere around $35/cord for red pine timber), $12 is effectively obtained throughout the supply chain into the economy (which in effect means $420/cord for the red pine lumber).

420. Love it. Ha ha.

One conversion is that 1 cord = 500 board feet, so that means finished red pine lumber should cost 84 cents a board foot at the retailer if the 1:12 conversion is correct.

In (1) 2x4x8' there is 5 1/3 board feet. Using 84 cents a board foot gives us $4.48, so the 1:12 ratio seems a little high for this product...However, when you consider the final additional costs and profit associated with whatever you are making with that 2x4, after you use it (and you must consider ALL costs: [example of such a cost would be % of car insurance payment/oil change/maintenance you spent during the time of transportation en route to and fro the lumberyard] , the numbers might meet the factor or at least be quite close.

I love economics! ;-)

The funny thing is that while Red pine is a species that can be used as production in 2x4s (the grade would be SPFe - the "e" being the important factor there), it is hardly ever sold this way on the retail market (SPF -without the "e" or fir/larch -which is a shittier grade- is more typically what you will see on the stamp where you are located - these are made with different groups of conifer species). Red pine is more often sold as treated material (4x4 posts for exterior decking applications, etc.). It won't span what some of the Western and Southern species will as joist and header material, but it doesn't bow as much either - which makes it preferable as 5/4 decking boards - Ponderosa and Red pine are the best for this application.

So the question for you, Vincent is - if your costs are $0.25 per 2x4, what do you plan on doing with the $1.23 you just made? :-)
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Michael » Tue May 04, 2010 4:28 pm

And to think I originally planned to be a forest economist....
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Re: DIY logging

Postby Woodsman » Tue May 04, 2010 4:40 pm

Michael wrote:And to think I originally planned to be a forest economist....


As you know, that write up is completely simplified too. My favorite class (Forest economics&policy) was taught by a forest economist. I 4.0ed that class - and most people got lost. LOL!


P.S. ---> In case it wasn't inferred (by vincent's costs I meant additional to the $3 he's paying for a 2x4 - and assumption was made that it was a 8' stud).
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