Junger's 'War'

[vagabond]

Started this book the other day. Quite good so far, very readable and engaging. It makes a very good complement to Restrepo.

Question for mil folks: He keeps mentioning how much weight everyone is carrying. At a part now where he says "Could the Army be dumb enough to make them walk the entire valley and then climb the Abas Ghar with 120 pounds on their backs? Each man will carry enough food, water, and ammo for a day or two..."

What exactly are they carrying that ways so much? I would assume ammo and body armor makes up a large amount of that?

[RYP]

ammo, batteries, water and all that armor that makes them pretty much sitting ducks if they have to run up hill. Afghans use mules we use men.

[vagabond]

ammo, batteries, water and all that armor that makes them pretty much sitting ducks if they have to run up hill. Afghans use mules we use men.

Yeah, there's much emphasis on the weight of the things they carry up the hills vs fighting the Afghanis that live on sticks and a gulp of water, or so Junger says.

And I meant weighs not ways above - fucking homophones

[diamondcutter13]

an example of the 100 lbs or so of "lightweight" kit I carry on the job, BTW I am way under the average weight stated below:

Average Canadian Soldier is 82 kg
• 32% of 82 kg = 26.2 kg - the max you should be carrying to remain effective
• Ammo and Weapons – 9 kg
• Ballistic Protection – 10 kg
• Clothing, Indiv Eqpt, Load Carriage – 9 kg
• Radio, NVGs, LAD, GPS + batteries – 6 kg
• Water – 3 kg
TOTAL – 37kg + at temp above 40C

This represents just your fighting order, or just the kit you fight with as a "light" infantryman. Your rucksack that you will sustain yourself from will weigh 40-45 kg, mostly batteries, ammo, and water. Your rucksack typically gets dumped when you come under contact, you don't fight with it on. The big weight also come in carrying the collective burdens of your platoon like support weapons and their ammo, optics, night vision, laser designators etc, etc. There's not much I'd leave behind really but lighter radios and batteries would be nice. On Op ANACONDA/HARPOON we were carrying loads this big at altitudes above 9000'. Our mules then had rotors, thank jeebus, but it still sucked and blew.

There's easier ways to make a buck.

[coldharvest]

There's easier ways to make a buck.

True......but not many that are as noble and honorable.

[diamondcutter13]

Thx Cold,

I enjoyed Restrepo and look forward to reading Junger's book.

[coldharvest]

Thx Cold,

I enjoyed Restrepo and look forward to reading Junger's book.

Seb's book is superb, I read it last month a couple of times.

[vagabond]

Thanks for the details diamondcutter, that adds some perspective.

I assume the batteries are for radio, flashlights, and night vision. How fast do you go through those? I would assume night vision would be a major hog. From what Seb's book says, owning the night is one of the major advantages for operations in Afghanistan since the Taliban haven't evolved to see in the dark yet.

Regardless, looks like a lot of shit to be humping over massive mountains. Thanks for carrying the load for all of us.

V

[diamondcutter13]

I assume the batteries are for radio, flashlights, and night vision. How fast do you go through those? I would assume night vision would be a major hog. From what Seb's book says, owning the night is one of the major advantages for operations in Afghanistan since the Taliban haven't evolved to see in the dark yet.
V

Flashlights, nightvision, lasers, GPS, etc are no big deal they just take CR123, AAA or AA, you can carry a hockeysock full of those no problem. Communications systems, big lasers, thermal optics etc have big-ass, heavy batteries and each system takes a different type. Cold temperatures at altitude burn batteries faster. If you are talking about conventional forces, light infantry humping the hills, you can only carry enough water and batteries for about three days or less. Food and everything else stretches out if you have to. Ammo is another story of course, big fights and casualties require you to get resupplied as soon as you can. With all the advantages of technology, health, and fitness on our side the mountains will still kick your ass.

Picture an ugly scenario carrying the above kit and then an 82 kg casualty, uphill. That takes four dudes and you're not going anywhere fast. Afghans may know how to pack light and use donkeys but they can't fight effectively in the dark, they can't call for support fire from the sky, and if you are a wounded Afghan or insurgent I don't like your chances of ever seeing evacuation or medical help. If Timmy Taliban only carries three magazines for his AK and his aim is not so good he needs to resupply after every fight too. BTW we tried using pack animals, I prefer helicopters. Donkeys don't show up with lots of guns on them and room for stretchers.

[Atrax]

This may be pure speculation on my part, but that heavy, retarded body armor and helmet issued out to American soldiers always seemed to be a response to all that negative publicity surrounding gear issued to guys in Iraq. Once your average civilian weenie found out the body armor we carried wasn't the "best body armor available", people started writing their congressman. What they didn't realize however, was that "best body armor available" equals the heaviest, most awkward shit to wear on Earth.

That, plus the risk-averse mentality prevalent at the Brigade level always loaded us down with all kinds of crazy bullshit. No shit, there I was bagging up what was left of some unfortunate Iraqi who was car-bombed into spaghetti when who should show up but the Brigade Sergeant Major and Commander. Who proceeded to throw a FIT when they realized most of us were only wearing one kneepad.

[diamondcutter13]

This may be pure speculation on my part, but that heavy, retarded body armor and helmet issued out to American soldiers always seemed to be a response to all that negative publicity surrounding gear issued to guys in Iraq. Once your average civilian weenie found out the body armor we carried wasn't the "best body armor available", people started writing their congressman. What they didn't realize however, was that "best body armor available" equals the heaviest, most awkward shit to wear on Earth.

I think lot of that hype was from the Dragon Skin fiasco:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_skin

[Atrax]

This may be pure speculation on my part, but that heavy, retarded body armor and helmet issued out to American soldiers always seemed to be a response to all that negative publicity surrounding gear issued to guys in Iraq. Once your average civilian weenie found out the body armor we carried wasn't the "best body armor available", people started writing their congressman. What they didn't realize however, was that "best body armor available" equals the heaviest, most awkward shit to wear on Earth.

I think lot of that hype was from the Dragon Skin fiasco:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_skin

You are probably right.

[Q]

I promise you the majority of those crying about body armor (or lack of the best) were tards looking to dump some more on Bush, more than out of concern for the troops.

You think those fucks know the difference between Dragonskin (which is the best buy I have ever made and I will smite with great wrath all who defame it) and the others?

[flipflop]

We used local made stuff in Basra, I took a slack handful of PPE out into the desert and shot them up, good to go they were & cost peanuts

Cheers

[praharin]

I promise you the majority of those crying about body armor (or lack of the best) were tards looking to dump some more on Bush, more than out of concern for the troops.

You think those fucks know the difference between Dragonskin (which is the best buy I have ever made and I will smite with great wrath all who defame it) and the others?

Smite away, just don't get it too hot, or it will disintegrate on you. lol